Victory in MSI HQL suit

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,452
    C&R = Everything 50 years old , Plus a long list of specifically named cool firearm . ie 1973 & older , about to become 1974 & older in a few weeks .

    In state , does not require HQL , does require 77R and 7days .

    Apply for an 003 FFL for C&R Collectors , and you may directly aquire from individuals except for Maryland , or have shipped directly to your home .

    There is a very long ,very informative Sticky in the C&R Subforum here .
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,337
    Columbia
    I do agree with you on some level.

    I actually did get my designed collector letter back in 2013 before the law changed because it allowed me to keep buying and not wait the 30 days. Not sure if that helps me today though if I don't want to do the HQL.

    On the HQL - I would pay the stupid license fee and I would take the required training even though I do not agree with it. What I have a major issue with is the principle of being finger printed. I do not appreciate being treated like a criminal...thats how that requirement feels to me. Also what could go wrong with giving the guvmint your personnel identifiable unique print.:sarcasm: This is my issue and I just can't get past it.

    Maybe its being foolish or wouldn't really matter. I don't know. Clearly its not constitutional to me. On the bright side....I'm saving money that I definitely would have spent :)

    Do you already own a handgun purchased in MD? Then you’re exempt from the training requirement.

    While I don’t agree that fingerprinting should be required, it’s not the end of the world. Besides, MD will always treat the law abiding gun owner as a criminal, might as well get what you want.
    Fill the safe and carry concealed.

    Even better would be to get your carry permit and then the HQL is free.


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    70Sevens

    Member
    Jun 4, 2013
    20
    Do you already own a handgun purchased in MD? Then you’re exempt from the training requirement.

    While I don’t agree that fingerprinting should be required, it’s not the end of the world. Besides, MD will always treat the law abiding gun owner as a criminal, might as well get what you want.
    Fill the safe and carry concealed.

    Even better would be to get your carry permit and then the HQL is free.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well dang...now you got me thinking. I do own one (or more:brows:) purchased in MD and I have the designated collector...so it sounds like the training isn't an issue. I didn't realize that would exempt me.

    I also didn't know that doing the carry permit gets you the HQL free. Given all of that...I guess it really would come down to the prints. :ohnoes: I haven't looked into it but I'm assuming I would need to do the prints anyhow if I did the carry permit? I'm learning a lot today...thanks for the responses.
     

    El_flasko

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Nov 16, 2008
    7,269
    Abingdon, MD
    I shall tell you what common sense is.

    Common sense is keeping a fire extinguisher under you kitchen sink even if after 60 years you've never had a fire.

    Common sense is having a smoke detector in your home, even though the only times it has ever gone off are when you're overdoing something in the oven or skillet.

    Common sense is having automobile insurance even though over perhaps a million miles of driving (a real number), you've never injured a single soul and made a sizable claim.

    Common sense is wearing your seatbelt every mile you're on the road even if, after a lifetime, it's never once been needed to keep you from hurtling through the windshield.

    Common sense is having firearms in case you're accosted, or your government needs to be kept in line, or needs a reset, even though these things have never happened during your lifetime either.

    Well said :bowdown:
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,212
    Harford County
    I do agree with you on some level.

    I actually did get my designed collector letter back in 2013 before the law changed because it allowed me to keep buying and not wait the 30 days. Not sure if that helps me today though if I don't want to do the HQL.

    On the HQL - I would pay the stupid license fee and I would take the required training even though I do not agree with it. What I have a major issue with is the principle of being finger printed. I do not appreciate being treated like a criminal...thats how that requirement feels to me. Also what could go wrong with giving the guvmint your personnel identifiable unique print.:sarcasm: This is my issue and I just can't get past it.

    Maybe its being foolish or wouldn't really matter. I don't know. Clearly its not constitutional to me. On the bright side....I'm saving money that I definitely would have spent :)
    There are a lot of good people who get fingerprinted for employment. It's not just for criminals anymore.
     

    emerald

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 25, 2015
    1,133
    I haven't looked into it but I'm assuming I would need to do the prints anyhow if I did the carry permit?

    Yep, you'll need prints for the carry permit.

    I think others have already chimed in on your earlier questions to me regarding C&R and purchase etc. I think the biggest downside of a C&R is you'll spend lots of time and money on Gunbroker.com picking out your new toys. It's terrible i tell you, just terrible! Once you've gone down this road, you won't go back, and you'll wonder why you waited so long.

    To get the C&R, you'll fill out paperwork for the ATF, and you'll have to send a letter to your local top law enforcement officer saying that you've applied for a C&R. That's probably the oddest thing about it. Depending on where you live, that'll most likely either be the chief of your local police dept. or your local sheriff. You'll also need to keep detailed logs of your acquisitions. I can't remember if it was in the C&R thread here or elsewhere, but I found a spreadsheet with all the right info someone had already put together to print the pages of my book from.
     

    70Sevens

    Member
    Jun 4, 2013
    20
    There are a lot of good people who get fingerprinted for employment. It's not just for criminals anymore.
    Yes...thats a really good point. I know the guvmint pretty much has all of our data anyhow...but it just feels wrong to give more of it voluntarily. I think I just need to get over it.
     

    70Sevens

    Member
    Jun 4, 2013
    20
    Yep, you'll need prints for the carry permit.

    I think others have already chimed in on your earlier questions to me regarding C&R and purchase etc. I think the biggest downside of a C&R is you'll spend lots of time and money on Gunbroker.com picking out your new toys. It's terrible i tell you, just terrible! Once you've gone down this road, you won't go back, and you'll wonder why you waited so long.

    To get the C&R, you'll fill out paperwork for the ATF, and you'll have to send a letter to your local top law enforcement officer saying that you've applied for a C&R. That's probably the oddest thing about it. Depending on where you live, that'll most likely either be the chief of your local police dept. or your local sheriff. You'll also need to keep detailed logs of your acquisitions. I can't remember if it was in the C&R thread here or elsewhere, but I found a spreadsheet with all the right info someone had already put together to print the pages of my book from.
    Thank you for all the detail here. I really appreciate it.

    I'm sure it is coming thru strongly in this thread that I really value my privacy. I think the only downside on the C&R sounds like volunteering to get on the Feds radar with the ATF (as opposed to just being on the MD radar). Although I'm not sure if there's a difference anyhow and I may be showing my naiveness here....they both likely have our data anyhow.
     

    emerald

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 25, 2015
    1,133
    Thank you for all the detail here. I really appreciate it.

    I'm sure it is coming thru strongly in this thread that I really value my privacy. I think the only downside on the C&R sounds like volunteering to get on the Feds radar with the ATF (as opposed to just being on the MD radar). Although I'm not sure if there's a difference anyhow and I may be showing my naiveness here....they both likely have our data anyhow.

    Welcome!

    And you posted on this board, so if you weren't on a list, you are now. Let me know if you need any tinfoil - have the extra wide, heavy duty Sam's Club rolls here. ; ) In all seriousness though, I'm right with you on the privacy etc. and not wanting more hits than necessary. I think at the point you do any of this stuff though, you've been processed. I don't hear any more helicopters flying overhead since I signed up than before.
     

    Phoenix_1295

    Creature of Life and Fire
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 6, 2010
    1,588
    MD
    Yes...thats a really good point. I know the guvmint pretty much has all of our data anyhow...but it just feels wrong to give more of it voluntarily. I think I just need to get over it.
    You really have nothing to worry about … unless you’re concerned your prints will match you with something you shouldn’t have done.

    Between employment, permits, and government clearances, I consider fingerprints commonplace.
     

    Nobody

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 15, 2009
    2,792
    If you served in the military you have been printed
    I don't remember being finger printed for the Army, ( not saying I didn't, just saying I don't remember) now when I did a special job for Uncle Sam I had to be finger printed, but not to enlist.

    This was in the early 80s.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,328
    Westminster USA
    I served 1970-1972

    IMG_0734.png
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,337
    Thank you for all the detail here. I really appreciate it.

    I'm sure it is coming thru strongly in this thread that I really value my privacy. I think the only downside on the C&R sounds like volunteering to get on the Feds radar with the ATF (as opposed to just being on the MD radar). Although I'm not sure if there's a difference anyhow and I may be showing my naiveness here....they both likely have our data anyhow.
    You'd be unpleasantly surprised to find exactly how much the various governments know about you.

    Don't think you can hide your interests, because they are actually buying information about your likes and dislikes and purchases from commercial sources as well.

    Might as well get the C&R; it's only 30 bucks for 3 years, they don't want your fingerprints or photos, and you get discounts from some of the big firearms companies like Brownell. No MD tax unless you buy thru an online site that requires it, no MSP BS or MD record of your purchases, and the paperwork is pretty simple; just log in firearm data, and who you got it from. If you sell, you log that too. If you let your C&R license lapse, you don't have to retain your records (Read: Shred 'em!). Then apply for a new C&R, and start over.

    For brief moments, when the mailman brings you your new old gun, you can almost feel like an American Citizen.
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,132
    MoCo
    Never been arrested but been fingerprinted many times. Hell, I even have a Stasi file.
     

    rickyp

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 13, 2009
    2,046
    If they continue to insist on us having a hql to exercise our right then we need to force the state to require a voter qualification card in order to vote with mandatory finger print and training Before being allowed to vote. Do this under the equal protection act in the constitution.
     

    Apd09

    Active Member
    May 30, 2013
    942
    Westminster, MD
    If they continue to insist on us having a hql to exercise our right then we need to force the state to require a voter qualification card in order to vote with mandatory finger print and training Before being allowed to vote. Do this under the equal protection act in the constitution.

    fde9be25390dcb15e1e5e5bb365180cb.jpg



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    BurkeM

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    1,296
    Baltimore
    How much involvement, if any, did the NRA have in this lawsuit?
    Technically, None. There is a distinct and legal difference between the NRA and NRA-ILA.



    Neither the NRA or the NRA-ILA were plaintiffs. As I understand the long history of the case, the NRA-ILA helped pay some of the considerable LEGAL FEES paid to 2 out of 3 of the lawyers/law firms involved.

    If you take the time to READ the legal files, you'll learn more about the story. It's all open source on the MSI website.
     
    Last edited:

    BurkeM

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    1,296
    Baltimore
    Cool! I'm going to assume that this is unless they've previously been convicted of specific crimes. (Not an issue for me...)
    The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits millions of people from owning firearms, without requiring convictions.

    18 USC 922(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
    (1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

    (2) who is a fugitive from justice;

    (3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

    (4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;

    (5) who, being an alien
    (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
    (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

    (6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

    (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;

    (8)who is subject to a court order that—
    (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
    (B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
    (C)
    (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
    (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or

    (9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,

    to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
     

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