Trust Paperwork

[Hoss]

Does the ATF require that you have a copy of your trust paperwork in your possession when traveling or hunting with your suppressor? Sent this to the ATF but have not received an answer. Thanks.

 

[Cal68]

I do not directly know the answer to your question, but a couple of times when I have been at ranges shooting with my suppressor, a range officer has asked me if I had a copy of my tax stamp with me showing that the suppressor was legally owned by me. They have never asked if I had a copy of my trust paperwork with me. I always make sure I have a copy of the tax stamp in my range bag when I plan to shoot with my suppressor. I have never carried a copy of my trust.

I'm sure someone more familiar with this topic will give you a direct answer to your question. And I'll be following the responses you get since I need to know the answer as well.

Cal68

 

[Sundazes]

I do not directly know the answer to your question, but a couple of times when I have been at ranges shooting with my suppressor, a range officer has asked me if I had a copy of my tax stamp with me showing that the suppressor was legally owned by me. They have never asked if I had a copy of my trust paperwork with me. I always make sure I have a copy of the tax stamp in my range bag when I plan to shoot with my suppressor. I have never carried a copy of my trust.

I'm sure someone more familiar with this topic will give you a direct answer to your question. And I'll be following the responses you get since I need to know the answer as well.

Cal68

I have owned suppressors for 15 years, I have never once been asked to show papperwork. You are only legally obligated to show your F4 to an ATF agent, not a RSO. What range?
That said, if I am ever asked by a LE, I will show it even though I dont have to. I just don't want the hassle.
To answer the OP, you should always have a copy or your F4 when you have the item with you. I keep copies on my phone.

 

[outrider58]

No

 

[Cal68]

You are only legally obligated to show your F4 to an ATF agent, not a RSO. What range?

Just to clarify what I stated in my post, the RSO's never asked to see my F4. They just asked if I had it with me. I checked my post and confirmed that I never said that I was asked to show it to the RSO. I am sorry if I misled anyone.

Cal68

 

[Lafayette]

Short answer, NO. You must be able to produce the stamp if asked by an ATF officer, but there are no stipulations for “when.” There are no rules/regulations that require you to keep a copy with the gun/transferable device.

From a convenience and avoiding hassle standpoint, it may be worth it to keep a *COPY* (not the original) with with gun/suppressor to minimize hassle if you so happened to get that request from an actual ATF agent. This allows you to avoid setting up a meeting and going into the field office, etc. You may also want to have a copy of your approved approved Form 5320.20 if you are taking your transferable device out of state… I keep a scaled-down copy of my approved 5320.23 with the stamp image in the grip of my SBR (along with some Skittles, of course.) Of course - what’s the actual likelihood you’ll run into an ATF agent at the range? Good question.

As for the range requiring it?
1) Stamps are TAX DOCUMENTS. Ask the nosy RSO if you can see their 1040 and W-2’s. Only entity that needs to see one is the ATF (and maaaaaaybe the IRS.)
2) Name and shame the range so the rest of us can avoid that place. It may be their right to ask, and to kick me out if I refuse, but as far as I’m concerned it’s none of their business and they can pound sand and I won’t be supporting that kind of behavior.

ETA:

Just to clarify what I stated in my post, the RSO's never asked to see my F4. They just asked if I had it with me. I checked my post and confirmed that I never said that I was asked to show it to the RSO. I am sorry if I misled anyone.

Cal68

Ah - ok. Still, none of their business if I have it or not.

 

[Hoss]

Thanks for the information. If I ever hear from the ATF I will post it.

 

[pre64hunter]

All ranges have rules. Follow their rules or be asked to leave or be banned and find somewhere else to shoot.
It would be very bad for a range if someone was shooting or using an illegally owned device on the range, or a member allowed access and use to a felon etc...

 

[Lafayette]

All ranges have rules. Follow their rules or be asked to leave or be banned and find somewhere else to shoot.
It would be very bad for a range if someone was shooting or using an illegally owned device on the range, or a member allowed access and use to a felon etc...

Yep. They are free to have rules, and to enforce them accordingly. Not disputing that.

And I like to know which ranges have those asinine rules so I can avoid them.

 

[Sticky]

Only the ATF can demand your stamp to prove legit. I carry a minature copy of my stamp with my weapon/item, just in case, but if you are not a BATFE agent, I am not, by law, required to show it to you.

 

[outrider58]

All ranges have rules. Follow their rules or be asked to leave or be banned and find somewhere else to shoot.
It would be very bad for a range if someone was shooting or using an illegally owned device on the range, or a member allowed access and use to a felon etc...

I would not join any range that would have me as a member...

 

[rseymorejr]

I would not join any range that would have me as a member...

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard

 

[outrider58]

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard hoyd...
View attachment 489363

 

[pre64hunter]

Yep. They are free to have rules, and to enforce them accordingly. Not disputing that.

And I like to know which ranges have those asinine rules so I can avoid them.

All of them!

 

[pre64hunter]

I would not join any range that would have me as a member...

I agree

 

[DaemonAssassin]

I do not directly know the answer to your question, but a couple of times when I have been at ranges shooting with my suppressor, a range officer has asked me if I had a copy of my tax stamp with me showing that the suppressor was legally owned by me. They have never asked if I had a copy of my trust paperwork with me. I always make sure I have a copy of the tax stamp in my range bag when I plan to shoot with my suppressor. I have never carried a copy of my trust.

I'm sure someone more familiar with this topic will give you a direct answer to your question. And I'll be following the responses you get since I need to know the answer as well.

Cal68

The last time an RSO asked me if I had my paperwork and I said I did, he then demanded to see it. I asked him if he was an agent of the ATF. He says no, so I told him that unless he was willing to give up his tax returns with all the PII left intact for me to inspect, he could fvck right off. He then threatened to call the cops because I was apparel in possession of an illegal NFA item. Shortly thereafter, the manager of said range came over and told the RSO to back off, and he couldn't ask to see any NFA paperwork under federal law.

Hell, when I did my carry class in WV, I asked the instructor if I could do my live fire with my suppressed 22LR pistol. He said he didn't care. I asked if he wanted to see my stamp, and he said to me that he didn't want to see it and that if it was illegal, it would be my tail, not his. <------- That guy gets it.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

All ranges have rules. Follow their rules or be asked to leave or be banned and find somewhere else to shoot.
It would be very bad for a range if someone was shooting or using an illegally owned device on the range, or a member allowed access and use to a felon etc...

No it wouldn't. It would fall on the individual, not the range.

 

[Lafayette]

All of them!

AGC does not, for what it’s worth.

 

[chale127]

I carry a laminated copy of the Form 4...Someone had best produce some credentials to see that, the trust is home in the safe...