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  • tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,122
    In the boonies of MoCo
    The HSc that I picked up last week also saw me pick up a Pieper Bayard "1908" in .25ACP. I didn't post it yet because it has a broken sear and is missing two grip screws and the right grip panel. All of those pieces are on their way here as I type this, but I figured I'd get it all back together before posting it. This is important to the story because I figured out, upon thinking about it, that the HSc and Bayard were just two pieces of a collection that someone dumped at a local pawn shop in Frederick. The HSc ran me $275. The .25 Bayard was only $99, and there were three other European vest pistols in the case with those two. All three were advertised for $99. They had been sitting a while (much like the HSc) and they wanted to get rid of them. Realizing that they were all bring-backs from the war, I offered up $250 for the final three that were in the case and I brought them home today.

    First up is your typical Eibar copy of the FN-1907/Colt 1908 vest pistol. The interesting thing about this one is that it is in .25ACP, not .32, and it doesn't have any maker's hallmarks on it. The language on the slide appears as part of the full roll mark for the "Protector" pistols of the same design, but this particular pistol isn't "named" that way. It also has the same grips that I've seen on other "Protector" models with the "Cal 6.35" in a rondel at the top. The serial number is a mere 3 digits (938) and the machining is surprisingly good for an Eibar piece. It is clearly an early production model from the S/N and I am very curious as to what its actual age is. I'll likely never know since the provenance of these types of pistols is very difficult to figure out. Unfortunately, the right grip has bowed from storage and there's a large gap. I'll likely pick up some repros to have, but keep the OG grips on hand.

    20231114_131302.jpg
    20231114_131310.jpg
    Below you can clearly see the roll mark verbiage. The "Model Automatic Pistol" graced later "Protector" pistols that then had the "Protector" name below the rest of the markings.
    20231114_131314.jpg
    That's a low S/N
    20231114_131325.jpg
    20231114_131408.jpg
    Very little exterior muzzle wear and pitting vs other examples I've seen.
    20231114_131414.jpg
    Here you can see where the right grip has bowed out over time, likely from improper storage.
    20231114_131522.jpg
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,122
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Next up is the .32 Pieper Bayard, often erroneously referred to as a "Bayard 1908"

    Pieper was your typical turn-of-the-century "Do everything" manufacturer who made cars, guns, bicycles, etc. out of an extensive factory in Herstal, Belgium. Eventually, Pieper would merge with the other firearms manufacturers in the Liege region to form Fabrique National. Henri Pieper was the driving force behind the formation of FN and the largest stakeholder in the new company.

    The "Bayard" was one of the better-selling pocket/vest pistols in Europe in the early 20th century, and when the Germans occupied Herstal during WWI, they continued to produce these pistols with German Imperial proofs and acceptance marks. We know the Serial Number range for these occupation pistols is from roughly 100643 to 199076. Mine falls on the earlier end of that scale at 126591. The Belgian proofs were long and deep on these pistols with anywhere from 5-6 proof marks along the right side of the slide and frame. The Germans only proofed them once with the imperial eagle. Given the amount of wear on both sides of this pistol, it would be difficult to raise any proofs definitively, but the lack of any remaining marks on the right side of the slide and frame leads me to believe it was German-proofed as you'd expect to find at least some evidence of the long string of proofs that the Belgians used. Combining that with the known occupation serial number range I'm fairly confident this is a German Occupation piece.
    20231114_130748.jpg 20231114_130821.jpg 20231114_130753.jpg 20231114_130843.jpg 20231114_130919.jpg
     
    Jul 1, 2012
    5,739
    Does that "938" only appear on the bottom of the "Protector" frame there?
    If so, it may not be a factory number (not a place you'd expect and not very "clean" for factory), rather something that got tagged on there "just because" it needed one.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,122
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Lastly, we have the rarer of all the pistols, a Waffenfabrik August Menz "Menta" in .25ACP. These pistols were developed around the "Little Tom" pistol and first offered in 1913 on the civilian market. Menta is an amalgam of (Men)z (Ta)schenpistole (literally Menz Pocket Pistol). These would go on to be upscaled to .32 and produced by WAM and Becker & Hollander for sale to officers and rear-echelon forces during the war. The fact that this one is in such great shape (though the right grip panel was missing, but I found a reproduction panel that works quite well) is amazing given the age. The most interesting thing about the operation of this pistol is that there is no ejector. The firing pin acts as the ejector when the slide travels the entire way to the rear.

    C&Rsenal has a good video about the "Beholla" (Becker & Hollander) version of this pistol in .32, and Ed Buffaloe has a great writeup about Menz and WAM here: https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Menz/menz.html

    20231114_131101.jpg 20231114_131111.jpg 20231114_131218.jpg 20231114_131225.jpg 20231114_131237.jpg 20231114_131129.jpg 20231114_131134.jpg
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,122
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Does that "938" only appear on the bottom of the "Protector" frame there?
    If so, it may not be a factory number (not a place you'd expect and not very "clean" for factory), rather something that got tagged on there "just because" it needed one.
    That is the only place. I've seen other Eibars marked this way with serial numbers. That said, I need to remove the grips to see if there are any other markings to be sure.
     

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