Stephen Hunter makes a point...

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

Stephen Hunter...author of the Bob Lee Swagger novels...makes an excellent point regarding guns...Stephen Hunter

 

[RFBfromDE]

I read Dirty White Boys and Hot Springs many years ago.

 

[hodgepodge]

He makes books full of excellent points about guns.

 

[Bikebreath]

He makes an excellent point and writes excellent books. I’m in the middle of book 10, G-Man.

 

[FrankZ]

So what's his point?

 

[RFBfromDE]

So what's his point?

That in1964 50% or so of young men were not medicated with psychoactive drugs, or did not have access to porno or violent game playing.

 

[FrankZ]

That in1964 50% or so of young men were not medicated with psychoactive drugs, or did not have access to porno or violent game playing.

Thanks

 

[lazarus]

That in1964 50% or so of young men were not medicated with psychoactive drugs, or did not have access to porno or violent game playing.

young men didn't have access to porno in 1964? So they read the braille version of playboy and penthouse? They had pretty good access to psychedelic drugs in 1964. And most of the kids who turn in to mass shooters aren't on ANY kind of psychoactive drugs (a tiny number, lower than the background rate in the populace for their age, are on such drugs). The general gist of mass shooting kids is that they typically live in shitastic households by parents that mostly ignore them. They aren't taking little Johny to the child psychiatrist for help. And the vast majority of the totally broken households that teen gang members come from also aren't similarly getting their kids helps.

Maybe violent video games have a role. Probably not.

Violent crimes rates peaked in 1991 in the US and murder in 1980. The murder rate in the US started going up around 1965 and stayed quite a bit higher through the rest of the 1960s, 70s, 80s and 90s before going down a lot with the murder rate in most of the 2010s being roughly the same as the murder rate in the early 1960s.

Vehicle theft is about the same. Burglary and robbery are the same or a little lower than the early 1960s. Forcible Rape is quite a bit higher, but honestly that is as likely to be that women are much more willing to report it now than they used to be in the 1960s (even forcible rape was probably a lot less likely to be reported in the 1960s), and that also peaked in the 1990s and has since gone down a lot. Property crimes are about the same as the early 1960s. Aggravated assault is still running about 2x as high as the earl 1960s, but is also a lot lower than the 1960s.

As much as anything, the economy has more influence over crimes than any other thing. There was a lot of economic upheaval and economic problems through a lot of the later 1960s, the 70s, 80s and earlier 90s and crime typically stays high for a few years after a serious economic downturn. Look at the spike around 2006-2008, that took 2-3 years to get a lot better (and that spike in 2006-2008 was a lot lower than what was happening in the early 1990s).

 

[RFBfromDE]

So I am to believe that the magazines I found in the trash in the 60s are equivalent to Porn Hub?

Or that the joints we smoked are equivalent to the vast overprescribing of Ritalin and other drugs?

Hmmmmm….

According to Lawrence Diller’s book “Running on Ritalin,” published in June 1999, Ritalin first began being prescribed in 1960. However, it was not until the 1990s when Ritalin prescriptions saw a dramatic increase. According to a 1995 PBS airing of The Merrow Report, prescriptions rose to 2 million and were doubling every two years. This increase was, in part, due to the advocacy of Children and Adults with Attention Deficit (CHADD), a group that received significant funding from CIBA, according to The Merrow Report.

When Was Ritalin Invented?

Ritalin is the brand name for the stimulant drug methylphenidate, developed by CIBA, now known as Novartis. It is used for the treatment of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). History CIBA filed for the Ritalin trademark on July 9, 1948, according to U.S. Patent and Trademark Office...

health-faq.com

 

[Biggfoot44]

young men didn't have access to porno in 1964? So they read the braille version of playboy and penthouse? They had pretty good access to psychedelic drugs in 1964.

Actually , in '64 Psychedelics were still pretty fringe . It was '66- '67 for them to become more widespread .

 

[Boats]

He makes an excellent point.

And just remember, the largest mass shooting of American civilians in history was carried out by.....the US Army.

 

[teratos]

So I am to believe that the magazines I found in the trash in the 60s are equivalent to Porn Hub?

Or that the joints we smoked are equivalent to the vast overprescribing or Ritalin and other drugs?

Hmmmmm….

According to Lawrence Diller’s book “Running on Ritalin,” published in June 1999, Ritalin first began being prescribed in 1960. However, it was not until the 1990s when Ritalin prescriptions saw a dramatic increase. According to a 1995 PBS airing of The Merrow Report, prescriptions rose to 2 million and were doubling every two years. This increase was, in part, due to the advocacy of Children and Adults with Attention Deficit (CHADD), a group that received significant funding from CIBA, according to The Merrow Report.

When Was Ritalin Invented?

Ritalin is the brand name for the stimulant drug methylphenidate, developed by CIBA, now known as Novartis. It is used for the treatment of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). History CIBA filed for the Ritalin trademark on July 9, 1948, according to U.S. Patent and Trademark Office...

health-faq.com

It’s sad. People think a medication can be a substitute for good parenting.

 

[Biggfoot44]

So I am to believe that the magazines I found in the trash in the 60s are equivalent to Porn Hub?

The mainstream porn mags at the corner market , not so much . The wrapped in plastic mags in the actual Adult Book Stores would fit in with today .

 

[Biggfoot44]

He makes an excellent point.

And just remember, the largest mass shooting of American civilians in history was carried out by.....the US Army.

So you are thinking Indians ? During the so- called Indian Wars era ? (Not saying about those particular situiations were Right or justified, just setting the larger Era .)

Most of the massacres of non- indiginous during the Labor Wars Era was not directly by * US Regular Army * . Those were State Militias under State Control , local authorities , and private detectives hired by mine/ factory owners , and various combinations thereof .

 

[lazarus]

So you are thinking Indians ? During the so- called Indian Wars era ? (Not saying about those particular situiations were Right or justified, just setting the larger Era .)

Most of the massacres of non- indiginous during the Labor Wars Era was not directly by * US Regular Army * . Those were State Militias under State Control , local authorities , and private detectives hired by mine/ factory owners , and various combinations thereof .

As much as I like and respect Karl over at Inrange, he is actually not correct. The largest massacre of nominally Americans was by the hands of the US Army at wounded knee (not direct combatants). 250-300 dead. Though Native Americans certainly wouldn't consider themselves citizens of the United States (at least not at the time). That is NOT me excusing it at all. It was f-ing horrible then and now.

But it was the largest, on US soil, killing of people in one way by someone related to the US in some way (non-terrorist event from non-US citizens not counting).

If you look at largest killing by someone related to the US that has no tangible connection to a legitimate military operation, goal, or objective not necessarily on US soil he is wrong (IE fire bombing Tokyo to destroy factories and bring the Japanese empire to their knees being the largest ever related to the US, well in excess of the nuclear bombings)

Mỹ Lai massacre was the largest. With over 500 killed by US soldiers with no real relation to any sort of legitimate military objective in anyway. Then or now. Though those were not US citizens or any anyway connected to the US. But certainly, worse than wounded knee. And they were for sure just totally innocent civilians.

 

[RFBfromDE]

Actually , in '64 Psychedelics were still pretty fringe . It was '66- '67 for them to become more widespread .

Even so, it was not prescribed in vast quantities to children with still developing minds.

 

[teratos]

Psychedelics are the future of psychiatry.

 

[RFBfromDE]

It’s a great scam.

Like the Earnest T Bass window replacement company.

 

[Blacksmith101]

The mainstream porn mags at the corner market , not so much . The wrapped in plastic mags in the actual Adult Book Stores would fit in with today .

But the 8MM movies were in black and white and the men kept their socks on and wore Lone Ranger masks.