SB1 (2023) - Criminal Law - Wearing, Carrying, or Transporting Firearms - Restrictions (Gun Safety Act of 2023)

[teratos]

….I think you just described them accurately.

Isn’t it insane?

 

[lazarus]

I'm not sure how that translates to people that own businesses in buildings that they do not own not being able to carry. I thought it was written somewhere that explicitly stated that this does not apply to business owners. If I lease a building and own and operate a business out of it I am quite positive I can carry a firearm because it is my place of business.

I did not see that change anywhere but I may have missed it.

The business owner language is related named sensitive places. Not to private buildings. I don’t think it is nested that way.

So if you own the bar you can carry. If you lease the building the bar is in, don’t believe the law is written that way.

 

[FatTony]

I’d laugh if it weren’t for the tragic loss of life. People who think a “no guns allowed” sign will deter a person who will kill an employee in a store are probably gullible enough to believe that girls can have a penis.

Exactly!
At first, I was shocked that they pointed it out but quickly realized I was watching a Baltimore news channel

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

 

[AliasNeo07]

The business owner language is related named sensitive places. Not to private buildings. I don’t think it is nested that way.

So if you own the bar you can carry. If you lease the building the bar is in, don’t believe the law is written that way.

I think that would be a first in the country. I don't think there's another state that says you can't carry in your own business, unless you own the building.

I don't read it that way, but I see what you're saying.

 

[Biggfoot44]

We'll see what the COMAR says , eventually .

 

[lazarus]

I think that would be a first in the country. I don't think there's another state that says you can't carry in your own business, unless you own the building.

I don't read it that way, but I see what you're saying.

6-411 of the new law does not have an exemption for the business owner.

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2023RS/bills/sb/sb0001e.pdf

4-111 earlier in the bill exempts the owner or lessee only of the new sensitive places in 4-111.

But 6-411 goes on to further restrict carry in any building that is privately owned with only the owner or the owner's agent able to allow possession/carry of a firearm within that building (only police, security, corrections officers and railroad officers are exempt from the private building carry permission restriction).

The way the law is written, if you own a bar, but the building is leased, if you get the landlords permission as the business owner you can carry in the bar, because you are exempt as the owner or lessee of the business. But 6-411 would still require you to get that permission from the landlord.

4-111 just means that the owners of bars, health care facilities, carnivals, etc. can all carry as those are all new sensitive places. BUT, they need to own the building, or have the permission of the owner of the building.

The owner/owner's agent thing was pointed out in the house committee hearing that this would do things like prevent residential renters from possessing a firearm in their dwelling and Clipplinger's response was, "well then they should rent somewhere else".

I am 100% positive that the lessee language does not cover a business owner if that lessee language does not cover a residential renter.

Preventing guns places is a feature, not a bug.

 

[AliasNeo07]

6-411 of the new law does not have an exemption for the business owner.

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2023RS/bills/sb/sb0001e.pdf

4-111 earlier in the bill exempts the owner or lessee only of the new sensitive places in 4-111.

But 6-411 goes on to further restrict carry in any building that is privately owned with only the owner or the owner's agent able to allow possession/carry of a firearm within that building (only police, security, corrections officers and railroad officers are exempt from the private building carry permission restriction).

The way the law is written, if you own a bar, but the building is leased, if you get the landlords permission as the business owner you can carry in the bar, because you are exempt as the owner or lessee of the business. But 6-411 would still require you to get that permission from the landlord.

4-111 just means that the owners of bars, health care facilities, carnivals, etc. can all carry as those are all new sensitive places. BUT, they need to own the building, or have the permission of the owner of the building.

The owner/owner's agent thing was pointed out in the house committee hearing that this would do things like prevent residential renters from possessing a firearm in their dwelling and Clipplinger's response was, "well then they should rent somewhere else".

I am 100% positive that the lessee language does not cover a business owner if that lessee language does not cover a residential renter.

Preventing guns places is a feature, not a bug.

Amazing. No way does that stand. I can't see that passing muster even pre Bruen. Do they think all of these gun shop owners or shooting range employees are all of a sudden not going to carry guns because they don't own the building? Ridiculous. Not to mention all of the other business owners. I am fortunate that I own the building I operate in but this is absolutely ridiculous.

Restricting carry outside the home aside, how can they possibly believe that preventing a business owner from carrying in his or her own business would pass constitutional muster? Or someone leasing an apartment or house?

 

[CrueChief]

How long do the wordsmiths get to dream up, I mean write all the COMAR stuff so we can actually see what is and isn't " allowed?"

 

[Mark75H]

It’s usually approved by the joint committee of the legislature in September

 

[Mark75H]

Maryland’s real shadow Government/star chamber

 

[lazarus]

Amazing. No way does that stand. I can't see that passing muster even pre Bruen. Do they think all of these gun shop owners or shooting range employees are all of a sudden not going to carry guns because they don't own the building? Ridiculous. Not to mention all of the other business owners. I am fortunate that I own the building I operate in but this is absolutely ridiculous.

Restricting carry outside the home aside, how can they possibly believe that preventing a business owner from carrying in his or her own business would pass constitutional muster? Or someone leasing an apartment or house?

That’s a feature. Not a bug.

The whole thing stands no chance. Even pre-Bruen I can’t see crap like that standing except maybe in the most liberal court in the universe.

 

[Allen65]

The whole thing stands no chance. Even pre-Bruen I can’t see crap like that standing except maybe in the most liberal court in the universe.

Which may very well be in Maryland District of 4CA....

 

[possumman]

This evening, WJZ-13 news reported the unfortunate death of the Baltimore T-MOBILE employee that was shot in an armed robbery a couple days ago. The reporter made sure to point out that this happened even though an obvious no guns allowed sign was posted on the storefront.

They interviewed the store manager who had worked there like 10 years -- said when she left at night in the dark she usually had something with her to help her be safe---didn't say what but left me wondering

 

[44 Bulldog]

Must have their credential on them per the law. If you are cop or corrections officer, or armed security guard and you don't have your relevant credentials and HGP on you, SOL. You are not exempt at that point. You going to jail.

Must have their credential on them per the law. If you are cop or corrections officer, or armed security guard and you don't have your relevant credentials and HGP on you, SOL. You are not exempt at that point. You going to jail.

Who the hell do they think they are to ask you who you are? If they ask, do you have to show them your creds? they have no authority to ask you who you are and if they did just leave they are not going to follow you or try to restrain you.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Most agencies have a default policy to identify yourself to any Orderly Person upon request .

 

[44 Bulldog]

Most agencies have a default policy to identify yourself to any Orderly Person upon request .

I understand if your a LEO and on duty you have to identify yourself but if you are a conceal carrier and the manager or owner happens to see your firearm or you're printing and they approach you and ask who you are do you have to tell them? or do they just call the police and have them ask you and if you are a LEO that would be wasting a LEO's time that's on duty. I can just see all the confusion and time wasted.

 

[esqappellate]

I agree with your sentiment. The fundamental challenge with successful concealed carry is that we are anonymous and therefore invisible to the public. The business community assumes their customers are comprised of whomever is the most shrill. I firmly believe that business prefer not to take a side in political issues and just want to sell their goods and services. An alternate course of action is to have a business card printed up that reads "your sign banning my constitutional rights in your store has cost you my business today" The challenge is it takes a bit of work to ensure the card gets into the hands of the person able to make those decisions.

Free "No Guns, No Money" Cards

Free 'No Guns, No Money' Cards at LearnToCarry.com - Educate and enlighten business owners who post signs that discriminate against customers with ccw permits!

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[wreckdiver]

I’m kinda done with this BS. If this doesn’t get struck down I’m gonna buy a smaller 9mm so there’s no chance of printing and carry anywhere there’s no metal detectors.

 

[44 Bulldog]

My nephew is a Deputy here in Calvert and if he was off duty and carrying and someone asked who he was I'm sure he would tell them don't worry about who I am. Then what? They going to call 911? You all see where I'm going with this right. It could go smooth or it could get nasty pretty quick depending on the attitude of the person, manager, owners attitude.

 

[44 Bulldog]

I’m kinda done with this BS. If this doesn’t get struck down I’m gonna buy a smaller 9mm so there’s no chance of printing and carry anywhere there’s no metal detectors.

I'm with you!