SB1 (2023) - Criminal Law - Wearing, Carrying, or Transporting Firearms - Restrictions (Gun Safety Act of 2023)

[Biggfoot44]

I have verbally stated this already, but don't think I have posted it...
The similarities between what this bill tries and the aftermath of Brown vs. The Board of Education are eerily similar.

Not just then, but 40 years of Jim Crow .

 

[lazarus]

So far there haven't been any issues that I've seen. There have even been a few 911 calls where permit holders have captured criminals in the act without firing a shot.

What we haven't seen so far are the self defense shootings that many were expecting and I think there are a few reasons for that.

First and foremost is that while the application process is much better post-Bruen, the 16 hour training class and particularly the live fire component are a significant barrier to people who live in the City, particularly the poor and lower middle class. Baltimore City doesn't have any functioning firing ranges within City limits other than the one used by the Police Department in the basement of the Northeastern District. In order to comply with the requirements to obtain a permit (unless you're training exempt) you have to leave the City. Many Baltimore City residents can't afford a car or don't have a driver's license. For all intents and purposes this makes obtaining a permit a non-starter for tens of thousands of people who would otherwise qualify. The sad part is that these are the people who often need to carry a gun for self defense the most. This is something that hopefully will be taken up by the Courts at some point.

Second, a lot of people still don't know that Bruen happened or don't understand its significance. The culture in Baltimore for a long time was that normal people can't carry firearms unless they're security guards and at this point you've had two or three generations raised in that mindset. I think that the number of permit holders in Baltimore City would explode if there were a public information campaign letting people know about the change in the law (i.e. billboards, pamphlets, targeted social media advertisements etc). A lot of people are shocked when I tell them that they can obtain a W&C permit now. It's no different, in my view, from when voting rights laws were passed. Many black people were so accustomed to being disenfranchised that it took them awhile to realize that they too could actually go into a polling place and finally cast their ballot.

Finally, and this goes back to my first point, the infrastructure just isn't there. Baltimore City has no public firing ranges. Baltimore City only has one gun shop (the "Cop Shop" on Baltimore Street). You can't hunt in Baltimore. You can't discharge a firearm within City limits on your own property for recreational or training purposes even if you have enough land to safely do so. Even if you purchase a firearm and obtain your W&C permit, going to shoot is time consuming and unpleasant due to the fact that you have to drive a significant distance to do almost anything.

I agree with almost all of this. Except where in Baltimore city are any private properties with sufficient land to build a back stop where you could safely shoot that isn’t literally a bullet trap or a basement shooting range? Or hunt either for that matter. I guess maybe a public park, but are there any private properties with >50yds from other residences for an archery safety zone?

Not a criticism. It’s a city.

 

[lazarus]

More generically, putting the government in charge of anything is a terrible idea.

Agreed. Privatize the military, all roads, social security, Medicare, police and fire departments, FEMA. I can think of more that private industry would do better and cheaper.

PS that was sarcasm in case that wasn’t clear. A lot gov’t shouldn’t touch. A lot private industry can’t do better or cheaper.

 

[MD Shooter Envy]

I agree with almost all of this. Except where in Baltimore city are any private properties with sufficient land to build a back stop where you could safely shoot that isn’t literally a bullet trap or a basement shooting range? Or hunt either for that matter. I guess maybe a public park, but are there any private properties with >50yds from other residences for an archery safety zone?

Not a criticism. It’s a city.

Rumor has it that Tom Clancy built an indoor range at his residence at the Ritz-Carlton many years ago.

 

[lazarus]

I have dealt with numerous justified uses of deadly force (not just guns but also knives and bludgeons) involving private citizens and never have I encountered a citizen who shot or stabbed the wrong person or fired "indiscriminately." Your average citizen respects life and property and is not depraved.

It does happen. It’s just rare and usually makes national news because it’s that uncommon.

 

[lazarus]

Rumor has it that Tom Clancy built an indoor range at his residence at the Ritz-Carlton many years ago.

He had one as his house down in Calvert. But that is also on like 60 (80?) acres.

It’s the only real way you can get a gun range here in HoCo. Not that my wife is going to let me, but my basement is big enough I could put in a 20yd range.

 

[MD Shooter Envy]

He had one as his house down in Calvert. But that is also on like 60 (80?) acres.

It’s the only real way you can get a gun range here in HoCo. Not that my wife is going to let me, but my basement is big enough I could put in a 20yd range.

Is Tom Clancy Building an Indoor Gun Range in His Penthouse?

Looks like the Ritz-Carlton in Baltimore may soon have Avon Barksdale finally on its side! An owner of one of the penthouses wants to install a gun range—well, technically just a "single lane that...

archive.curbed.com

 

[lazarus]

Is Tom Clancy Building an Indoor Gun Range in His Penthouse?

Looks like the Ritz-Carlton in Baltimore may soon have Avon Barksdale finally on its side! An owner of one of the penthouses wants to install a gun range—well, technically just a "single lane that...

archive.curbed.com

Well dang. That's cool. Also a bit nutty.

 

[RFBfromDE]

Well dang. That's cool. Also a bit nutty.

Money cannot buy happiness but it often does buy nutty.

The only thing stopping me from excess is lack of funds!

 

[Threeband]

I don't understand what's nutty about it.

 

[tdt91]

I agree with almost all of this. Except where in Baltimore city are any private properties with sufficient land to build a back stop where you could safely shoot that isn’t literally a bullet trap or a basement shooting range? Or hunt either for that matter. I guess maybe a public park, but are there any private properties with >50yds from other residences for an archery safety zone?

Not a criticism. It’s a city.

If you get out of the Inner city, you would be surprised at some of the properties that are in the city limits.

 

[rbird7282]

I disagree. For confirmation, just observe the example of the NYPD. Officers there are lucky if they fire a dozen training rounds in a year. Most do nothing other than attend the cursory initial fam training in the NYPD Academy. And they typically can't hit the broad side of a barn when they are called upon to use their guns. Recall the Empire State Building incident where they missed an armed perp and wounded a half dozen innocent bystanders after discharging a ludicrous number of rounds. RECURRING PROFICIENCY TRAINING IS VITAL.

Recurring training is vital, it should NEVER be made mandatory by the state

 

[dgapilot]

Recurring training is vital, it should NEVER be made mandatory by the state

And if made mandatory to exercise a right, should be subsidized (paid in full) by the state and made available in all neighborhoods.

 

[BeoBill]

I agree with almost all of this. Except where in Baltimore city are any private properties with sufficient land to build a back stop where you could safely shoot that isn’t literally a bullet trap or a basement shooting range?

Not a criticism. It’s a city.

This was successfully done by an/the indoor range in Manhattan. I surmise that the reason it isn't done in Baltimore City is the City Rulers, who stack zoning ordinances against building an indoor range within city limits. That keeps those uppity resident proles from exercising their freedoms like the Ruling Class can. Jim Crow is still very much alive and well there...

 

[BeoBill]

Recurring training is vital, it should NEVER be made mandatory by the state

Sadly, if it isn't then human nature (and costs) will just let it slide indefinitely. OTOH, I dread the idea of the clown show we call the MGA dictating training requirements.

 

[Checksbob]

I disagree. People like the ones on this forum are not typical for those I keep meeting who want a concealed permit. I've met too many who have no idea about why they can't own a fully automatic, what they can and can not do under the law, how to handle a weapon, and absolutely no idea about how to shoot to hit something.

Training is the difference between the wrong people getting shot indiscriminately as we've generally had, versus the appropriate use of weapons.

I will agree that the cost of fingerprinting (twice), then the course, then the fees, is definitely discriminatory.

Why not totally ignore the reality that exists in a majority of these United States?

Using a handgun is instinctive; someone tries to rob/kill you, you point it at them and pull the trigger. Otherwise you leave your hands off.

How stupid do you see your fellow man to be? How intent on mayhem and slaughter?
Those interested in that sort of activity already have guns.

I don't know if your attitude automatically makes you a racist, but statistically that would be a reasonable inference. Look at who is in gravest danger. Do you see an interesting demographic?

Bob A
Sure - The physical act of using a handgun can be instinctive as point and pull the trigger but that was not the point.

"How stupid do you see your fellow man to be?" As I said, people on a forum like this have an idea about how to handle and use a weapon, BUT watch the noobs come into a gun shop and point anywhere, finger on the trigger. The reality is that the last time I was in a gun shop a guy who said he had JUST finished his CCW class was looking at what to buy, had not checked the action, and pointed a gun right at me with his finger on the trigger while looking at it. (The shop owner and I both yelled as it came up.) Ask any gun store owner or employee not IF they've seen it but how many times a day they do. That's your normal John Public demonstrating how you can't assume others will "leave your hands off." Those people are generally not "stupid," they are untrained and ignorant.

"Mayhem and slaughter?" Yes, the wrong people have easy access to weapons and I used the word indiscriminately because I've been in undeclared war zones (Columbia, Cameroon, Ethiopia, Middle East), commuted into DC for 32 years before it cleaned up, spent a lot of time in Baltimore, done ride-alongs, and more. I'm a retired Federal Investigator who as been shot at, had a lot of guns pointed at me, and am very familiar with kids with guns doing drive-byes where the wrong people got hurt.

Want reality? It's the helpless feeling of just being able to listen when a good friend and co-worker comes to work and says she/they (more than one) & the kids had to get on the floor because the house next door was being shot up. I'm all for those ladies being able to carry but again with kids comes the need for training about what responsible ownership means. Not letting the kids get to their weapon, knowing when and how to shoot without going into the next apartment, where they can learn how and practice, etc. Their not having much extra money is why I mentioned CCW costs are discriminatory - because they effectively got locked out. This and the need for training are why I commented in this thread in the first place.

Finally, you can shove your "racist inference" comment in trying to judge me or anybody else. I am proud to have next door neighbors and friends of all races and beliefs. It's not my place to judge because I know who I am, including how screwed up I am, and thanks to people like those ladies I mentioned for bringing me into their lives. But you do you.

 

[Muleskinner]

Still see a lot of posts equating gun control with public safety..

Gun control laws have nothing to do with public safety..

 

[rbird7282]

Sadly, if it isn't then human nature (and costs) will just let it slide indefinitely. OTOH, I dread the idea of the clown show we call the MGA dictating training requirements.

Not my problem. With every right, there is a responsibility. No mandatory training, not ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisD]

If you get out of the Inner city, you would be surprised at some of the properties that are in the city limits.

True, when I worked on the west side of the city, I came across a fellow that had 5+ acres off of Frederick Avenue near Beechfield Road.

 

[BeoBill]

Not my problem. With every right, there is a responsibility. No mandatory training, not ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It will become your problem when the untrained novice aims at the guy over there and puts a slug into you...