SB1 (2023) - Criminal Law - Wearing, Carrying, or Transporting Firearms - Restrictions (Gun Safety Act of 2023)

[rbird7282]

Saw this posted this morning under SB1 via MGA website: Study pdf Racial Equity Impact https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/Pubs/BudgetFiscal/2023RS-SB0001-REIN.pdf

What a big nothing burger. The State will never really admit to what they already know, that this bill (along with things like the HQL) disproportionately affect minorities and low income individuals, probably the people that need a carry permit the most.
Fvck MD


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[Bob A]

According to the MSP statistics, the state's population is 12% Hispanic, 47% White, 29% Black, and the balance is a mixture of Hawaiian/Islander/Asian/Indian/Mixed Race.

MSP did not break out the percentage of Hispanic/Latino as a separate group in their HGP statistics;
"According to DSP, of the 114,089 active handgun permit holders in 2022, 62% are white, 34% are
Black or African American, 2% are Asian, 1% are of an unknown race, and less than 1% are
American Indian or Alaska Native."

It seems to follow that, combining Hispanic with White, that group would hold about 59% of the permits, while the Black populations is somewhat over-represented at 34%.
I fail to see any major disproportion, except for the under-represented Asian community. What is surprising is the percentage of Black permit holders; I would have thought that economic and other hurdles would have kept them traditionally under-armed, which has always been the intention with the various Jim Crow-types of legislative hurdles in MD's firearms laws.

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/Pubs/BudgetFiscal/2023RS-SB0001-REIN.pdf

 

[Some Guy]

According to the MSP statistics, the state's population is 12% Hispanic, 47% White, 29% Black, and the balance is a mixture of Hawaiian/Islander/Asian/Indian/Mixed Race.

MSP did not break out the percentage of Hispanic/Latino as a separate group in their HGP statistics;
"According to DSP, of the 114,089 active handgun permit holders in 2022, 62% are white, 34% are
Black or African American, 2% are Asian, 1% are of an unknown race, and less than 1% are
American Indian or Alaska Native."

It seems to follow that, combining Hispanic with White, that group would hold about 59% of the permits, while the Black populations is somewhat over-represented at 34%.
I fail to see any major disproportion, except for the under-represented Asian community. What is surprising is the percentage of Black permit holders; I would have thought that economic and other hurdles would have kept them traditionally under-armed, which has always been the intention with the various Jim Crow-types of legislative hurdles in MD's firearms laws.

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/Pubs/BudgetFiscal/2023RS-SB0001-REIN.pdf

Good take. I agree with you that it's likely that Hispanic w&c permit holders were not accurately estimated in the paper. If they were the numbers would reflect estimated population demographics. I think they fudged the numbers.

I'm glad that people from races, ethnicities and creeds appear to be exercising second amendment rights. It's shameful that the State is trying to quash these rights, especially for minorities that very likely need to exercise the right to self-defense outside the home more than others. The legislative response to Bruen is a Jim Crow and racist blight on Maryland.

 

[RFBfromDE]

….I fail to see any major disproportion, except for the under-represented Asian community. What is surprising is the percentage of Black permit holders;

MGA can’t have none of that!

 

[Biggfoot44]

Or . it could represent Blacks of middle class- ish and up economic situation obtaining W&C at greater than overall rates .

 

[Some Guy]

Just briefly ran down the "racist Maryland firearm laws throughout history" rabbit hole and found this interesting read posted by By Henry Heymering, from Never Blue Farm in Frederick. I'm not familiar with the man or his farm, but I thank him for taking the time to post this concise synopsis of some of Maryland's firearm laws. This document was posted a long time ago, but it's very relevant today.

Hats off, Henry. Thank you.

http://www.neverbluefarm.com/articles/MD%20Carry%20Laws.pdf

 

[teratos]

Just briefly ran down the "racist Maryland firearm laws throughout history" rabbit hole and found this interesting read posted by By Henry Heymering, from Never Blue Farm in Frederick. I'm not familiar with the man or his farm, but I thank him for taking the time to post this concise synopsis of some of Maryland's firearm laws. This document was posted a long time ago, but it's very relevant today.

Hats off, Henry. Thank you.

http://www.neverbluefarm.com/articles/MD%20Carry%20Laws.pdf

Henry was Founder of MSI. He passed away with the past couple of years.

 

[Tower43]

Just an aside - the property tax benefits don't apply to those volunteers, like me, that don't live in the county in which they volunteer.

Thats because they can't grant you those in other states lol

 

[Some Guy]

Henry was Founder of MSI. He passed away with the past couple of years.

I was unaware of this. Quite a legacy. Thanks for letting me know. I'm glad his website remains up. His summary document is a great reference.

 

[Tower43]

I was unaware of this. Quite a legacy. Thanks for letting me know. I'm glad his website remains up. His summary document is a great reference.

Indeed, may his legacy last forever.

 

[Allen65]

The same Webster who has been found to lie. Nobody there cares.

Don't be so hard on Webster. He can be a useful idiot for us this year. It doesn't hurt our cause to use data provided by a trusted expert witness for SB1's proponents as proof that creation of extra "sensitive places" will cause more guns to be stolen and end up "on the street" (a phrase that seems to strike guttural fear in the hearts of Antis) and will result in constituents either offended or actually harmed. It's MD, so offended is probably the more important outcome, politically.

I made sure a friendly member of the HJC has the arguments and information needed, including the link to Webster's published statements and data.

 

[Apd09]

Deleted.

 

[Apd09]

Wrong thread. Deleted.


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[elwojo]

Don't be so hard on Webster. He can be a useful idiot for us this year. It doesn't hurt our cause to use data provided by a trusted expert witness for SB1's proponents as proof that creation of extra "sensitive places" will cause more guns to be stolen and end up "on the street" (a phrase that seems to strike guttural fear in the hearts of Antis) and will result in constituents either offended or actually harmed. It's MD, so offended is probably the more important outcome, politically.

I made sure a friendly member of the HJC has the arguments and information needed, including the link to Webster's published statements and data.

The problem with Webster is that he considers any infringement worthy of pursuing, and any problem with any infringement is because there isn't enough infringement. Now we will need "policies and programs" to fix the problems that he is advocating for in response to Bruen:

Those policies are likely penalty based. The programs might be financial incentives, but I have a hard time seeing any blue state giving money to gun owners without a commensurate increase in costs to gun owners (aka "no free lunch").

The tweet I originally posted that linked to him was bombed with people pointing out how the antigun response to Bruen would make this problem worse. He just doubled down that it's Republicans fault:


This tweet alone should be damming of his position as a researcher. He straight up is a Democrat propagandist under the name of PhD scientist. I would absolutely love to see how he handles data and assumptions on his papers throughout their development - as they are likely procedurally altered to reach a desired outcome rather than letting the numbers test his hypotheses.

 

[Allen65]

The problem with Webster is that he considers any infringement worthy of pursuing, and any problem with any infringement is because there isn't enough infringement. Now we will need "policies and programs" to fix the problems that he is advocating for in response to Bruen:

Those policies are likely penalty based. The programs might be financial incentives, but I have a hard time seeing any blue state giving money to gun owners without a commensurate increase in costs to gun owners (aka "no free lunch").

The tweet I originally posted that linked to him was bombed with people pointing out how the antigun response to Bruen would make this problem worse. He just doubled down that it's Republicans fault:


This tweet alone should be damming of his position as a researcher. He straight up is a Democrat propagandist under the name of PhD scientist. I would absolutely love to see how he handles data and assumptions on his papers throughout their development - as they are likely procedurally altered to reach a desired outcome rather than letting the numbers test his hypotheses.

He's going to keep doing what he does, and he gets credibility by default from MGA leadership, even if he doesn't deserve any of it. We have an opportunity to use his data and analyses that MGA trusts, to prove one of our arguments.

Either it gains us some credibility with an audience otherwise highly biased against us, or we impeach his credibility by demonstrating how his work proves one or more of our points. I mean, from a hardcore Anti's point of view, if us rabid gun nuts support part of his work, there must be something wrong with it.

 

[pcfixer]

Some people Just Stupid-- Called Eye Dee Ten Tee---

guns left unlocked in vehicles

 

[jc1240]

The problem with Webster is that he considers any infringement worthy of pursuing, and any problem with any infringement is because there isn't enough infringement. Now we will need "policies and programs" to fix the problems that he is advocating for in response to Bruen:

Those policies are likely penalty based. The programs might be financial incentives, but I have a hard time seeing any blue state giving money to gun owners without a commensurate increase in costs to gun owners (aka "no free lunch").

The tweet I originally posted that linked to him was bombed with people pointing out how the antigun response to Bruen would make this problem worse. He just doubled down that it's Republicans fault:


This tweet alone should be damming of his position as a researcher. He straight up is a Democrat propagandist under the name of PhD scientist. I would absolutely love to see how he handles data and assumptions on his papers throughout their development - as they are likely procedurally altered to reach a desired outcome rather than letting the numbers test his hypotheses.

Johns Hopkins is a joke when it comes to "follow the science." Examples - still mandating masks for all and promoting "trans" BS. This clown is becoming more the "rule" than the "exception" for JH and "science."

 

[possumman]

According to the MSP statistics, the state's population is 12% Hispanic, 47% White, 29% Black, and the balance is a mixture of Hawaiian/Islander/Asian/Indian/Mixed Race.

MSP did not break out the percentage of Hispanic/Latino as a separate group in their HGP statistics;
"According to DSP, of the 114,089 active handgun permit holders in 2022, 62% are white, 34% are
Black or African American, 2% are Asian, 1% are of an unknown race, and less than 1% are
American Indian or Alaska Native."

It seems to follow that, combining Hispanic with White, that group would hold about 59% of the permits, while the Black populations is somewhat over-represented at 34%.
I fail to see any major disproportion, except for the under-represented Asian community. What is surprising is the percentage of Black permit holders; I would have thought that economic and other hurdles would have kept them traditionally under-armed, which has always been the intention with the various Jim Crow-types of legislative hurdles in MD's firearms laws.

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/Pubs/BudgetFiscal/2023RS-SB0001-REIN.pdf

When I took the class last August probably 1/3 of the class were black women--also a fair number of Hispanics

 

[elwojo]

He's going to keep doing what he does, and he gets credibility by default from MGA leadership, even if he doesn't deserve any of it. We have an opportunity to use his data and analyses that MGA trusts, to prove one of our arguments.

Either it gains us some credibility with an audience otherwise highly biased against us, or we impeach his credibility by demonstrating how his work proves one or more of our points. I mean, from a hardcore Anti's point of view, if us rabid gun nuts support part of his work, there must be something wrong with it.

The problem is that Clippinger and Ferguson aren't going to decide "well I guess we'll do nothing because the science isn't on our side". I've talked to them personally more than a few times as their constituent and understand them too well. In their mind the gun is the problem. They have to do something because of NYSRPA v Bruen.

They will take Webster's position. They need to pass this now because CCW is evil, and they won't let "perfect be the enemy of good". They'll have to fix the problems that they create next year, which is perfect for them. They love to change the landscape for gun owners all the time: it's a feature - not a bug. BGOS++. Also an ever-changing legal landscape is even harder to legally challenge. Another feature!

I stand by my original conviction that was openly challenged: stop giving the antis ideas on how to make their laws more tolerable. The more tolerable they are, the harder they are to fight in court. I love Mark Pennak and how resourceful and well put together his work is - but I also see his legislative work as an impediment to our nonstop court battles with the antis.

These are not friendlies who we are compromising with. You don't tell your enemy how to attack you better, but we do that all the time. They are trying to make it more unlikely for gun owners to exist in Maryland and to randomly imprison those that stay. The more bad laws they make, the more likely more of us move, and the happier they will be in their monoculture of political beliefs. And fvck it - what they are doing is working: my eyes are on WV for the long haul.

 

[Mark75H]

“Compromise” means the other side gives a concession. We need to stop using that word.