Saxton SxS 12 gauge

[floatingboy]

I just won an auction for a Saxton 12 ga SxS that the auctioneer says is Belgian. I'm finding more info on English/Birmingham damascus barrel (English twist) guns that people say can't handle modern ammo. This gun is more of a "base model" and the steel looks like plain old steel (not sure what was used at the time). A shotgun identification thread on shotgunworld says that it's imperative to get any old gun examined by a smith that specializes in double guns, so I guess I need to find one of those! Something tells me that may be easier said than done.

Any info would be appreciated.

 

[WatTyler]

No information, but that's a very graceful gun.

 

[Cochise]

That is what we call a JABC (just Another Belgian Clunker) When new it was about $10.00 and was not great quality then, built to a price point before there were product liability lawyers. The hundred or so years since have not made it stronger.
All that said, I shoot Belgian hammer guns often and some are great guns, from what I can see in the photos I wouldn't shoot that one. If you do want to, make sure it isn't loose, that it is on face, that the barrels are not pitted and have adequate wall thickness (I doubt someone would have gone to the trouble of honing them to get rid of pits but you never know). Remember the wood is 100 years old and weaker than the metal and recoil is the enemy as much as pressure is. Shoot light loads if you have to shoot it.

 

[floatingboy]

Thanks so much. So recoil could really cause stock issues? Are you referring specifically to cracks? If so, can they often be repaired successfully enough for shooting?

As for the bores, how bad does the pitting need to be to worry about it? I see some people say light internal pitting is not a problem.

Any recommendation for light loads? I don't think I'm gonna tool up to load for shotgun at this point.

 

[Cochise]

RST is a great source for vintager loads. Basically 7/8 oz or 1 oz of lead at around 1200 fps and pressure under 7000psi.
Old wood is likely to be either oil soaked and soft at the head of the stock, or dry and shrunk, either can lead to cracks. The wood is definitely weaker than the metal.
Remember with pits what you see isnt all there is, and that gun wasnt great or really even good quality when it was brand new.
I shoot a Darne that is pretty badly pitted and it is fine but the barrels are thick and it was high quality steel proofed for a stout load when it left the factory, its a risk I considered and did fine but...your results might vary....

 

[wpage]

Lots of good resourse here...

https://www.shotgunworld.com/forums/north-east.19/

 

[tallen702]

Thanks so much. So recoil could really cause stock issues? Are you referring specifically to cracks? If so, can they often be repaired successfully enough for shooting?

As for the bores, how bad does the pitting need to be to worry about it? I see some people say light internal pitting is not a problem.

Any recommendation for light loads? I don't think I'm gonna tool up to load for shotgun at this point.

OP, call Rust Bluing Gunsmithing: http://rustbluing.com/ for any of your needs. They probably have a nominal fee to look it over and see what it needs if anything.

 

[slsc98]

In addition to the solid advice and referrals given up thread, here’s another double specialist: https://www.niceolddouble.com/

Just, don’t procrastinate contacting him; secrets out and the bigger world outside Carolina is finding out about him. I remember when he started and he recently posted a photo of his restoration work rack and it was wayyyyyyy longer than it was just a couple years ago …

 

[floatingboy]

Thanks everyone.

 

[floatingboy]

I don't suppose sub gauge inserts would do the trick, would they?

 

[tallen702]

I don't suppose sub gauge inserts would do the trick, would they?

Only if they're the full length of the barrel like the Briley ones. https://www.briley.com/c-416-companion-drop-in-tube-sets.aspx

 

[slsc98]

I don't suppose sub gauge inserts would do the trick, would they?

I shoot damascus barreled shotguns frequently only using low pressure 12ga reloads (5/8 to 3/4oz lead in a Claybuster CB 12-0175 wad (the hot pink one) over 14.9 gr.s of Alliant Xtra Lite in Winchester 12ga AA “HS” hulls. Primers used include Fiocchi 616, Winchester or Nobel Sport 209’s

A LOW pressure reload is better advised than trying to shoot a factory sub gauge via an insert in an old Damascus bbl like that.

You really oughta reach out to Nice Old Double down here in Raleigh, N. Carolina (see contact info upthread); he probably could’ve pointed you to where you could have the bbls proofed by now.

Your gun your choice but, every week you put off making contact with him (or any other doubles specialist) will simply multiply your inevitable wait exponentially …

Hope you’re enjoying that gun soon, Best o’ success!

 

[floatingboy]

I did reach out to him and just heard back today. He says he can help me figure out if it's shootable. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I'm thinking sub gage inserts wouldn't need to be full length , just long enough to contain any significant pressure .

With an insert would contain the radial chamber pressures , still would need to stand up to the back force against the breech .