Red Dots, Suppressor Sights, Colors, ugh!

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  • AliasNeo07

    Active Member
    Feb 12, 2009
    5,887
    MD
    Need some opinions from those who have been down this road.

    I'm hoping my suppressor paperwork comes back in the next few months. Picking up a VP9 Tactical in anticipation (suppressor height sights, cut for red dot.)

    I'm trying to decide on a red dot and I think I've decided on a Triji RMR because it seems to have the reputation for being the most reliable.

    But the only red dot on a pistol I have shot is with a lower 1/3 co-witness and both irons were black. In this case, since they are suppressor height, it will be absolute co-witness, correct?

    I'm used to shooting red dots on rifles with fixed irons, but that isn't distracting. My concerns for this are as follows, and any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

    1. That the suppressor height sights with red dot will be too much in the glass and too distracting.
    2. That the green suppressor height front sight will clash with the red dot and make the sight picture very confusing.

    Should I leave everything as it is and roll with it? Try for a green dot on the optic to match the green paint on the front sight? Swap out the front sight for a black one? Swap out both sights for blacked out regular sights for 1/3 co-witness? This will probably be a dedicated suppressor gun - I don't envision shooting it THAT much without it.

    Thanks!
     

    Bountied

    Active Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    2,781
    Pasadena
    He already has suppressor height sights, but wants a red dot too. I have had bad luck with red dots on pistols and don't like them. He is trying to solve a problem that he doesn't need to solve, just skip the red dot and use the stock sights.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    37,860
    Need some opinions from those who have been down this road.

    I'm hoping my suppressor paperwork comes back in the next few months. Picking up a VP9 Tactical in anticipation (suppressor height sights, cut for red dot.)

    I'm trying to decide on a red dot and I think I've decided on a Triji RMR because it seems to have the reputation for being the most reliable.

    But the only red dot on a pistol I have shot is with a lower 1/3 co-witness and both irons were black. In this case, since they are suppressor height, it will be absolute co-witness, correct?

    I'm used to shooting red dots on rifles with fixed irons, but that isn't distracting. My concerns for this are as follows, and any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

    1. That the suppressor height sights with red dot will be too much in the glass and too distracting.
    2. That the green suppressor height front sight will clash with the red dot and make the sight picture very confusing.

    Should I leave everything as it is and roll with it? Try for a green dot on the optic to match the green paint on the front sight? Swap out the front sight for a black one? Swap out both sights for blacked out regular sights for 1/3 co-witness? This will probably be a dedicated suppressor gun - I don't envision shooting it THAT much without it.

    Thanks!
    Some suppressor sights are higher than others. Avoid cheap ones if it isn't too late. I prefer XS sights, mainly because they are the least obtrusive and help prepare you for not using your sights eventually(unless you dot goes down).

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/255275320396?hash=item3b6f98444c:g:6LkAAOSw34JhtqIJ

    Eventually, you will stop using your iron sights and just relying on the dot, but in the beginning, you will use them to aid you in picking up the dot. At least that's how it worked for me. I do use night sights on most of my guns and don't find them distracting, in fact, I rarely notice them. I have 3 Trijis and love them.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    16,315
    PA
    Dot sights and irons aren't always a "clean" absolute or lower 1/3, they can be anywhere from the bottom edge of the RDS window to around 1/3. Going by some quick measurements bore axis to slide is .4", standard sights are .230, suppressor height are .415, baout .15" of front sight is visible in the rear notch. An RMR is about .350" to the bottom of the window and about .9" to the top, but it's recessed a little in the slide, not sure exactly but between .05and .1". So figure the top edge of a 1 3/8" can will be about .285" above the slide. The bottom edge of the RMR window is between .25" and .3" above the slide, the bottom of the front sight in the notch appears about .400, top is about .415, top of the window is about .8, so the sight is technically about bottom 1/4. IMO the green front sight FO is OK, and IMO preferable. Red dots are awesome, MUCH easier to make accurate shots at longer range, and can be faster close range, but require some practice to shoot well. The main thing is presenting the sights with a good grip so you see the dot in the little window, the irons help with that.
     
    Last edited:

    Bountied

    Active Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    2,781
    Pasadena
    He already has suppressor sights, they came with the gun. He's trying to figure out if a red dot will make it too cluttered with the sight picture and the high sights. Reading comprehension. Still do not like red dots on pistols...
     

    Johnny5k

    Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    485
    Red dot with suppressor height sights is not too cluttered at all. The RMR is a little large for my tastes, on a 9mm anyways, I like the Vortex Venom. All of my FN pistols have SH sights and a red dot. FNX45 has RMR, 509ct has Venom, 502 has Venom. They all cowitness fine, which is helpful in learning to use the dot.

    Night sights have never distracted me at all. I had considered training (for a red dot failure) with the irons, having had a red dot since my first pistol, when I had a failure during a competition stage. I didn't even notice the dot was not there until I was taking my last shot. Having learned and trained with cowitnessed suppressor height sights, I found that I was able to naturally transition to a sight picture without the dot without thinking about it. I wonder if I had started with just a red dot and no cowitness if it would have been as smooth a transition.

    Don't know why we have such a vocal red dot naysayer here, it is clearly a superior system in almost all circumstances. I believe that training with a red dot pistol will even make you a faster and better shooter when you later use irons only. Maybe I've just had good luck with them.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    37,860
    *insert Trump "wrong" meme here"

    Skip the suppressor sights, spend the money on a quality red dot (RMR, DPP, SRO, MPS, etc.), and you'll be good to go.
    IMO, the sights help speed up the learning curve. Besides, not having back-up irons on a race gun is one thing. Not having them on a self defense gun is quite another. Defensive shooting(as you know) is not a cut and dry situation.
    dot.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    jpprock

    Member
    Feb 24, 2012
    141
    Easton
    I have a holsun 507c on a 9mm with suppressor height sights and in my opinion the sights are not distracting. I was concerned before I put red dot on it but it was a non issue.
     

    AliasNeo07

    Active Member
    Feb 12, 2009
    5,887
    MD
    Thanks everyone!

    Skip the red dot on a pistol, they suck.

    It's a range toy. I'm not going to be EDCing a suppressed HK VP9 Tactical lol.

    Also, I tend to agree with you. But I keep being told I'm wrong by people that know way more and have more experience with defensive shooting than I do. I sort of feel like in a couple years, if I have still resisted, I'll be like some of the cops in the 80's or even early 90's that didn't want to give up their revolvers for primary duty use. Times change. I probably need to jump on board.

    Maybe one day.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    48,801
    Bel Air
    Thanks everyone!



    It's a range toy. I'm not going to be EDCing a suppressed HK VP9 Tactical lol.

    Also, I tend to agree with you. But I keep being told I'm wrong by people that know way more and have more experience with defensive shooting than I do. I sort of feel like in a couple years, if I have still resisted, I'll be like some of the cops in the 80's or even early 90's that didn't want to give up their revolvers for primary duty use. Times change. I probably need to jump on board.

    Maybe one day.
    Get a VP9L slide for it and put an optic on that.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    12,914
    Rockville, MD
    The irons don't help me pick up the dot faster, but I also don't notice them. If you want to get a fast index using a red dot, you need to dry-fire... a lot. There's no shortcuts that really work.
     

    DC-W

    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,232
    Baltimore City
    I don’t have personal experience with the RMR, but a friend has both and prefers the Holosun.

    I pulled the trigger on the 507c this morning. Couldn’t help myself.

    YMMV
     

    Silverlax

    Member
    Nov 13, 2014
    513
    Eastern Shore
    I’ve used the trijicon and the 507 Vulcan holosun. I prefer the Vulcan reticle in pistols because it is intuitive when you initially acquire sight picture. It works well under nods too. The rmr is a crisp dot but I was new to pistol red dots and found the holosun easier to acquire (you can also turn off the large diameter circle).
     

    Slackdaddy

    My pronouns: Iva/Bigun
    Jan 1, 2019
    2,862
    After trying a VP9 with a 507c ACSS on it, I’m sold on pistol optics. I’m going to get a green acss version for my Sig Legion when I find a deal ($371 shipped right now is steep).

    This might be something you need to look for: https://chpws.com/product/v4-mil-leo-hk-2020-rmr-sro-holosun-407-507-508/

    56aec2d2ed7523ec0036e0d95d8634f7.jpg
    That Holosun sits pretty high up with the plate, to high for my liking.
    What is the VP9 cut for? Holosun has released their SCS for the native Glock MOS,, The are suppose to have versions for other manufactures cuts out shortly. Since the the SCS fits the manufactures native milling/cut,, it sits real low.
    The SCS received great reviews from Sage Dynamics.

    I am waiting to see what other manufactures Holosun supports with the SCS before buying another handgun.
     

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