Question about stripped AR lower.

[Omaha419]

Hey,

I recently bought the PSA stripped lower kit for $99 they had on sale two days ago. It's already shipped.

I was trying to get a friend to do the same. He was told by a couple of people that are FFL's that "buying a lower means nothing, you'll have to re-register the gun after you complete the build, and that it will have to be completed by Oct 1 or pay a $5000 fine."

This makes no sense to me at all. I searched here and googled and found no such thing saying that this is true. Can someone shed some light on this for me?
Thanks,
Joe

 

[DoubleTap007]

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=109281&highlight=sb281

 

[Omaha419]

I hate politicians.....


This section becomes somewhat more opinion-oriented.

Q: What's going on with stripped AR-15 lowers?
A: I've moved this question down here because the uncertainty level is so high. But let's talk about it.

Right now, lowers of regulated firearms are treated as regulated because, in MD code, a firearm is either the whole gun or the receiver of such a gun. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that if a gun is banned, the receiver is banned. This should be an open-and-shut case for AR-15 lowers being assembled post-ban, right? After all, the stripped receivers are already assault long guns, so who cares how you reconfigure them? No so fast.

The problem is manufacturing. The MSP would be entirely within their rights to say "we consider completing a lower into a full gun (for the first time) to be manufacturing (not assembly), which you are absolutely not allowed to do post-ban for a banned gun". Maryland law defines a firearm as either the gun or the receiver, implying they're two different things that fall in the same category. Federal law defines a receiver as "other", not a "rifle". Going from one to the other could conceivably be considered manufacturing. This is basically how the federal AWB worked. Mind you, they'd have a difficult time proving your guilt in court, but we're simply talking about law here.

The other repercussion from their current policy is that stripped AR-15 lowers would be banned from sale/transfer in the state after the ban, as they'd be considered assault long guns. In theory, the MSP could change this so that they'd be considered HBAR clones by default instead. However, that raises another problem: could Maryland decide that your unassembled post-ban lower was now an HBAR lower retroactively? I'm thinking not, but it's quite an idea. If they did that, you DEFINITELY would not be allowed to build a non-HBAR AR-15 post-ban. (Plus, you'd be able to buy future stripped HBAR AR-15 lowers as unregulated... fun!)

You can see why I keep saying this comes down to MSP or even AG interpretation. There are a lot of competing ideas here, and the bill is simply not clear enough on this issue. We need a friendly delegate to request some binding opinions from the AG on these matters AS SOON AS POSSIBLE if the bill passes.

So, for the cries of "what should I do?", here is my advice, which is the safest possible: build your guns before the ban. I would argue that the minimum standard should be a built lower that has had ANY non-HBAR AR-15 upper assembled on it at least once. You would not need an upper for each receiver; you would simply need to have a complete gun with that receiver at some point in time. Simply being built pre-October-2013 turns it into a proper assault long gun, which is ban material.

PS: incidentally, even in a land of unregulated stripped lowers, you'd still need to be 21 to buy, due to federal rules ("other" vs "rifle").

 

[gungate]

My thought has been to build all of my lowers into complete guns and then voluntarily register them. That way there is no question. I have enough parts to do 3 at a time so I would have to make multiple trips. Better safe then sorry though right?

 

[Omaha419]

My thought has been to build all of my lowers into complete guns and then voluntarily register them. That way there is no question. I have enough parts to do 3 at a time so I would have to make multiple trips. Better safe then sorry though right?

Isn't there a deadline to register though? I did thinking I could just build my AR whenever I want. Seems like there is a deadline to register 1/1/14.

Are the MSP really going to knock on my door and check to see if its still a stripped lower? I doubt it.

Will it be an issue if I have to use the gun in a self defense situation? I'd say so.
It would be easy to borrow an upper from someone, register it as a firearm and then go about it the way I or we intended.

Good job politicians. Good job.

 

[foodpoison]

registration is voluntary

 

[Mr H]

My thought has been to build all of my lowers into complete guns and then voluntarily register them. That way there is no question. I have enough parts to do 3 at a time so I would have to make multiple trips. Better safe then sorry though right?

Please stop. Everyone.

Deep breaths.

Lower receivers, by law, ARE the regulated portion.

We know, through a happy accident on the State Senate Floor which pinned Brian Frosh in a corner, that anything that has been purchased as a "regulated firearm" in Maryland is considered "registered".

Any lower purchased and transferred before 10/1 is unaffected by SB281.

Please stop assuming, and start reading.

 

[Omaha419]

Please stop. Everyone.

Deep breaths.

Lower receivers, by law, ARE the regulated portion.

We know, through a happy accident on the State Senate Floor which pinned Brian Frosh in a corner, that anything that has been purchased as a "regulated firearm" in Maryland is considered "registered".

Any lower purchased and transferred before 10/1 is unaffected by SB281.

Please stop assuming, and start reading.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Boom Boom]

here is my advice, which is the safest possible: build your guns before the ban.

Example #1: I already own a mix of fifty lowers (some stripped, some complete). I buy five complete uppers on Sept 30th, with four having lightweight barrels and one being an HBAR. Which lower gets forever paired with which upper in any way required by MD law either now or as of Oct 1st? Hint: none.

Example #2: I'm roaming through WV on Nov 1st, spot a new lightweight upper made on Oct 2nd, and pay cash for it. How does that upper get forever paired with any lower I owned pre-Oct 1st in any way required by MD law as of Oct 1st? Hint: it doesn't.

 

[bulletdrop]

You do know that you have 2 hands? 50 is a lot, by any standard. and if you have combat load and 2 resupplies as recommended for each weapon you have a house that is actually a munitions depot....But still kinda cool!

 

[KRONIK27]

After Oct.1 you can still build the Lower anyways you want. Even SBR as long as you pay and get the stamp. Don't listen to buddies or people that don't know their @$$ from a hole in the ground. We the People of MDShooters know our Rights and AR15s.
Just my 2 cents....

 

[KRONIK27]

And while your here take a drive to PA, WVa or Va. Buy a couple of AR 30 rounders and shove them up your buddies face as well. And live Proud!

 

[KRONIK27]

I got 2 hands as well. I believe I Voted on a Poll here on MDS about how many AR Lowers are enough. I Voted 16+, I like to have Product to keep me busy in the next couple of years. Hopefully MOM is out of Office by then.

 

[teratos]

I got 2 hands as well. I believe I Voted on a Poll here on MDS about how many AR Lowers are enough. I Voted 16+, I like to have Product to keep me busy in the next couple of years. Hopefully MOM is out of Office by then.

I think I am going to have to stay happy with 8.

 

[KRONIK27]

I think I am going to have to stay happy with 8.

Hey look at the bright side. Your Happy

 

[teratos]

Hey look at the bright side. Your Happy

Not really. I need at least 2 more to be happy.

 

[frdfandc]

I'm buying one more lower before Oct 1. Probably either another Spikes or an Aero Precision.

That will give me a total of 4 AR's once they are completed.

Can't afford any more than that. And that is fine by me.

 

[pilgrim]

Example #1: I already own a mix of fifty lowers (some stripped, some complete). I buy five complete uppers on Sept 30th, with four having lightweight barrels and one being an HBAR. Which lower gets forever paired with which upper in any way required by MD law either now or as of Oct 1st? Hint: none...

50, see honey the few I have is nothing.

 

[Daniel87]

how many AR stripped lowers can you buy at once or separately each month? I know regulated firearms are only one every 30 days unless you buy 2 at once then you have to wait 60 days? is this the same for stripped lowers? or can you buy as man as you want whenever you want them?

 

[Daniel87]

also what is the wait time on an AR Lower? You dont have to wait the whole 18 week backlog do you?