Purchase of Handgun By Out-Of-State C&R Holder

[Conductor]

I have a modest collection of Colt revolvers, and have found a guy in Maryland who has an older model Detective Special for sale at a reasonable price. I live in VA, have a C&R FFL, and am wondering how that will work as far as legally buying the revolver from the MD resident. Many years ago, I used my C&R license to buy a Colt New Service from Norm Strebe (Strebe Gun Works). Before Norm would sell me the gun, we called the local MSP barracks and talked to the firearms guy there, who okayed the sale. But as we all know, laws change. I don't want to drive all the way to Westminster, only to be told that I can't buy the gun.

 

[rseymorejr]

I have a modest collection of Colt revolvers, and have found a guy in Maryland who has an older model Detective Special for sale at a reasonable price. I live in VA, have a C&R FFL, and am wondering how that will work as far as legally buying the revolver from the MD resident. Many years ago, I used my C&R license to buy a Colt New Service from Norm Strebe (Strebe Gun Works). Before Norm would sell me the gun, we called the local MSP barracks and talked to the firearms guy there, who okayed the sale. But as we all know, laws change. I don't want to drive all the way to Westminster, only to be told that I can't buy the gun.

Perfectly legal, but make sure the seller understands and will abide by the law.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Perfectly legal, but make sure the seller understands and will abide by the law.

I agree with this.

 

[Conductor]

What steps does the seller have to take to "abide by the law"?

 

[whistlersmother]

In terms of MD? There's nothing seller needs to do. Of course, if he has a C&R, he'll have to record the disposition in his bound volume, but that's not a MD thing.

If I were selling, I'd want a copy of your C&R and a bill of sell detailing the firearm's status as C&R.

You will want to transport it out of MD in an enclosed holster or container, unloaded, as per MD transport laws.

 

[rseymorejr]

What steps does the seller have to take to "abide by the law"?

You sign a copy of your license and give it to the seller, he gives you a copy of his drivers license so you can enter the info in your bound book. I'd also want to get a receipt .

 

[beetles]

I bought a vintage revolver from an out-of state private seller. The seller sent it directly to my FFL in Maryland. I did the usual 77R, ATF and waiting period, and all good. If you are a FFL-holder and the article meets C&R definition (a Detective pre-1972, in this case) should be all good. If you are a dealer, I'm not sure how that works if you are buying this for sale inventory versus personal collection as concerns MD use tax, but for a personal collection, you would probably owe the tax.

 

[sxs]

IANAL. I am surprised by some here saying this is totally legal especially given that a couple of them I believe to know the law very well. If it were me, i would have the seller ship to your FFL address in Virginia, or bring the gun to Virginia. Otherwise, have the owner take it to an FFL dealer to ship to you (and many dealers in Maryland, will only ship to another dealer and not an 03 although shipping to an 03 is not illegal). I personally think you could have a potential issue completing the sale in Maryland when you are not a Maryland resident. I guess I'll hear from others correcting me if I am wrong, but the only reason an 03 FFL allows Marylanders to buy outside the state is because only the Federal law is in effect outside the state. When you as a VA resident do the transfer here, Maryland law is in effect and I am not aware of any law or opinion that would allow you to make the purchase here. OK guys, show me where I'm wrong (SG?).
If you want to question MSP, don't talk to troopers. They may or may not know the law well. Call the licensing division, ask for Firearms Registration. If possible, I would speak to Sgt Edwards.

 

[Squaregrouper]

IANAL. I am surprised by some here saying this is totally legal especially given that a couple of them I believe to know the law very well. If it were me, i would have the seller ship to your FFL address in Virginia, or bring the gun to Virginia. Otherwise, have the owner take it to an FFL dealer to ship to you (and many dealers in Maryland, will only ship to another dealer and not an 03 although shipping to an 03 is not illegal). I personally think you could have a potential issue completing the sale in Maryland when you are not a Maryland resident. I guess I'll hear from others correcting me if I am wrong, but the only reason an 03 FFL allows Marylanders to buy outside the state is because only the Federal law is in effect outside the state. When you as a VA resident do the transfer here, Maryland law is in effect and I am not aware of any law or opinion that would allow you to make the purchase here. OK guys, show me where I'm wrong (SG?).
If you want to question MSP, don't talk to troopers. They may or may not know the law well. Call the licensing division, ask for Firearms Registration. If possible, I would speak to Sgt Edwards.

You bring up a point I hadn't considered... An 03 FFL is not a dealer, even though they hold a FFL. (MD law specifies dealers, not FFL holders) I am now not 100% sure this would be legal to do within MD borders.
If the transaction took place in PA (just up the road from Westminster) or in the OP's state of VA, then MD would have no jurisdiction on the transaction.

 

[Bob A]

478.50 (b) A licensed collector may acquire curios and relics at any location, and dispose of Curios or Relics to any licensee or to other persons who are residents of the State where the collector's license is held and the disposition is made. (3)

(c) A licensee may conduct business at a gun show pursuant to the provision of 478.100 or
(d) A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may engage in the business of dealing in curio or relic forearms with another licensee pursuant to the provisions of 478.100.

478.100
(c) Licensees conducting business at locations other than the premises specified on their license under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall maintain firearms records in the form and manner prescribed by subpart H of this part. In addition, records of firearms transactions conducted at such locations shall include the location of the sale or other disposition, be entered in the acquisition and disposition records of the licensee, and retained on the premises specified on the license.

(3) Exception to this provision is provided for in 178.98(c)(1)(i) in which a licensed collector is specifically authorised to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State as long as the transaction is consummated at the licensed collector's premises and the transaction is legal in both States.


This seems pretty straightforward. Of course, State laws have to be observed. That said, having the seller or his FFL01 ship the gun to you would e perfectly legal, as noted above by SXS. Probably not much more expensive than driving from VA to Westminster. Face to face sale in MD, even between two C&R licensees, seems to run afoul of MD's weird and oppressive laws.

 

[lazarus]

478.50 (b) A licensed collector may acquire curios and relics at any location, and dispose of Curios or Relics to any licensee or to other persons who are residents of the State where the collector's license is held and the disposition is made. (3)

(c) A licensee may conduct business at a gun show pursuant to the provision of 478.100 or
(d) A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may engage in the business of dealing in curio or relic forearms with another licensee pursuant to the provisions of 478.100.

478.100
(c) Licensees conducting business at locations other than the premises specified on their license under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall maintain firearms records in the form and manner prescribed by subpart H of this part. In addition, records of firearms transactions conducted at such locations shall include the location of the sale or other disposition, be entered in the acquisition and disposition records of the licensee, and retained on the premises specified on the license.

(3) Exception to this provision is provided for in 178.98(c)(1)(i) in which a licensed collector is specifically authorised to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State as long as the transaction is consummated at the licensed collector's premises and the transaction is legal in both States.


This seems pretty straightforward. Of course, State laws have to be observed. That said, having the seller or his FFL01 ship the gun to you would e perfectly legal, as noted above by SXS. Probably not much more expensive than driving from VA to Westminster. Face to face sale in MD, even between two C&R licensees, seems to run afoul of MD's weird and oppressive laws.

On your last, correct. There is an assistant AG opinion that if you are a Maryland C&R holder you could buy/sell and have it shipped in/out just fine (likely they view the transaction as being across state lines is why). But I am not aware of any opinion that says an out of state C&R holder could come in to Maryland and conduct the same transaction (Maryland likely considers that a transaction occurring within Maryland). Maryland says any C&R regulated firearm needs to go on a 77r and 7-day wait. It doesn't give an exemption to C&R holders.

If the Maryland seller is also a C&R holder they could just ship it to your house, or you could meet up at the VA border, on VA's side.

PS I am pretty sure the Barracks guy was wrong on the validity of the sale. I highly doubt you'd ever get in trouble. MSP said it was okay. But I wouldn't rely on that in the future. I'd want something in writing which Maryland AGs office hasn't provided in the past related to face-to-face of a C&R holder within MD's borders. That is okay with long guns under the new long gun transfer law, but that didn't extend that back to regulated firearms (handguns)

 

[sxs]

On your last, correct. There is an assistant AG opinion that if you are a Maryland C&R holder you could buy/sell and have it shipped in/out just fine (likely they view the transaction as being across state lines is why). But I am not aware of any opinion that says an out of state C&R holder could come in to Maryland and conduct the same transaction (Maryland likely considers that a transaction occurring within Maryland). Maryland says any C&R regulated firearm needs to go on a 77r and 7-day wait. It doesn't give an exemption to C&R holders.

If the Maryland seller is also a C&R holder they could just ship it to your house, or you could meet up at the VA border, on VA's side.

PS I am pretty sure the Barracks guy was wrong on the validity of the sale. I highly doubt you'd ever get in trouble. MSP said it was okay. But I wouldn't rely on that in the future. I'd want something in writing which Maryland AGs office hasn't provided in the past related to face-to-face of a C&R holder within MD's borders. That is okay with long guns under the new long gun transfer law, but that didn't extend that back to regulated firearms (handguns)

Pretty much the same as my understanding of the law....with one correction. Long gun transactions seem to have an exemption under the recently passed long gun laws if BOTH parties hold an 03 FFL. FYI had let my 03 lapse a couple years back but reapplied for it last year specifically due to this exemption.

 

[lazarus]

Pretty much the same as my understanding of the law....with one correction. Long gun transactions seem to have an exemption under the recently passed long gun laws if BOTH parties hold an 03 FFL. FYI had let my 03 lapse a couple years back but reapplied for it last year specifically due to this exemption.

Oh, yeah. Sorry I wrote that part in my head. It just didn’t translate to my keyboard. Yes, the long gun transfer exemption, both the parties to the transaction have to have an FFL-03.

 

[jC3]

I have a modest collection of Colt revolvers, and have found a guy in Maryland who has an older model Detective Special for sale at a reasonable price. I live in VA, have a C&R FFL, and am wondering how that will work as far as legally buying the revolver from the MD resident. Many years ago, I used my C&R license to buy a Colt New Service from Norm Strebe (Strebe Gun Works). Before Norm would sell me the gun, we called the local MSP barracks and talked to the firearms guy there, who okayed the sale. But as we all know, laws change. I don't want to drive all the way to Westminster, only to be told that I can't buy the gun.

Seems to me the easiest & most legal way would be FFL to FFL transfer...

 

[dblas]

IANAL. I am surprised by some here saying this is totally legal especially given that a couple of them I believe to know the law very well. If it were me, i would have the seller ship to your FFL address in Virginia, or bring the gun to Virginia. Otherwise, have the owner take it to an FFL dealer to ship to you (and many dealers in Maryland, will only ship to another dealer and not an 03 although shipping to an 03 is not illegal). I personally think you could have a potential issue completing the sale in Maryland when you are not a Maryland resident. I guess I'll hear from others correcting me if I am wrong, but the only reason an 03 FFL allows Marylanders to buy outside the state is because only the Federal law is in effect outside the state. When you as a VA resident do the transfer here, Maryland law is in effect and I am not aware of any law or opinion that would allow you to make the purchase here. OK guys, show me where I'm wrong (SG?).
If you want to question MSP, don't talk to troopers. They may or may not know the law well. Call the licensing division, ask for Firearms Registration. If possible, I would speak to Sgt Edwards.

The seller could simply bring it to the OP in VA and transfer it without any issues.

 

[sxs]

The seller could simply bring it to the OP in VA and transfer it without any issues.

Agreed.