PTP gets pulled over

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  • Brikhaus

    Active Member
    Jun 7, 2013
    255
    Western Marylandistan
    Nobody said anything about being guilty. LEO can disarm you during the stop, which means they can run the serial while said firearm is in their possession.
    That is incorrect. Or at least partially incorrect. If they disarm you without you having committed a crime, such as in the video, then they cannot remove the firearm from the holster to observe the SN. If the SN is visible while in the holster, then they can run it, as long as doing so doesn't extend the duration of the stop.
     
    Last edited:

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,684
    Loudoun, VA
    Just because one has a permit doesn't mean a firearm in their possession isn't stolen.
    what a bunch of friggin bullsh1t. do they run your watch and phone, any computers in the car, your gps unit, golf clubs, anything else that possibly could be stolen? not even close to being germane to the traffic stop and we all know that the more a gun is handled, chances for a nd/ad increase, esp when the cops have a good chance of not being familiar with most firearms.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Beat me to it. The senior trooper tries to play it off as an unofficial policy, but barring additional criminal indicators it is a 4A violation,

    For those that say they don't want to, or will not get out of the car, save yourself a headache. The police can order you out of the car for any, or absolutely no reason. (MD. v. Wilson & PA v. Mimms). And if they become aware of your weapon, they can disarm you for the duration of the stop. That's why it's best, IMHO, to not volunteer that information, unless required by law. Obviously, the graphics on the car clued them in to ask about them.
    That is a double edge sword there, you do not tell them and are asked to exit the vehicle and you "uncover" your gun while undoing your seatbelt and it gets seen now your hand is near a previously unknown gun and it could go down hill quickly from there.
     

    SteveG75

    Active Member
    Feb 25, 2013
    215
    Escaped to gunny FL.
    IMHO they crossed the line by running the serial number when no crime was committed.

    Which brings up an interesting scenario: What liabilities are incurred when the trooper is manipulating the firearm and it discharges?
    Good question re the liabilities.

    Bit of a story here. Ways back, the match where I shoot IDPA here in FL had a ND GSW. Guy shot myself on a turn and draw scenario. Victim was off-duty cop (not relevant). Anyway, paramedics are securing scene and sheriff department is there. Supervisor on scene is having rookie do the work. Tells him to secure the weapon. Weapon is on safe, under a bucket, with club member sitting on bucket. Rookie goes to secure weapon. Rookie comes back. "I don't know how to secure that gun". 1911

    So, if a cop is trying to make your gun safe and has an ND????
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,472
    This is how bad policy is created and repeated. Mustache Trooper will now disarm and run the serial # for the rest of his career.

    Imagine the police checking everything in your vehicle to see if it’s stolen? I mean why not?
     

    Brikhaus

    Active Member
    Jun 7, 2013
    255
    Western Marylandistan
    That is a double edge sword there, you do not tell them and are asked to exit the vehicle and you "uncover" your gun while undoing your seatbelt and it gets seen now your hand is near a previously unknown gun and it could go down hill quickly from there.
    Well IF they asked me to step out of the vehicle then I probably would let them know about it. But, IMHO just telling them off the bat is unnecessary and might cause the stop to "go downhill quickly" if you get a LE that is similarly untrained, as the troopers were.
     

    jc1240

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 18, 2013
    15,064
    Westminster, MD
    The guy in the video makes a valid common sense point as well - who would go through the BS that is Maryland's permit requirements and then carry a stolen gun daily?
     

    Tower43

    USMC - 0311
    Jul 6, 2010
    4,292
    Lusby, MD
    This is how bad policy is created and repeated. Mustache Trooper will now disarm and run the serial # for the rest of his career.

    Imagine the police checking everything in your vehicle to see if it’s stolen? I mean why not?
    until someone sues a 4A violation.
     

    44 Bulldog

    Active Member
    Oct 25, 2012
    534
    Dunkirk-Calvert County
    Except they did.
    My daughter wrecked my car in LaPlata on 3-23-23 , no one hurt, and I went to get her and when I arrived I walked up to the Trooper and he said are you her father? I said yes I have a carry permit and I am armed...... Trooper said OK. He never asked for anything. Trooper was out of the LaPlata office. He was very professional.
     

    outrider58

    watdyanow watdyasee?
    MDS Supporter
    The guy in the video makes a valid common sense point as well - who would go through the BS that is Maryland's permit requirements and then carry a stolen gun daily?
    Exactly. But boy-oh-boy, would it not be a peacock tail feather in one's cap to find one that was stolen and carried by a "legal" gun owner. It's enough to make them keep trying.
     

    jrumann59

    DILLIGAF
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 17, 2011
    14,024
    Well IF they asked me to step out of the vehicle then I probably would let them know about it. But, IMHO just telling them off the bat is unnecessary and might cause the stop to "go downhill quickly" if you get a LE that is similarly untrained, as the troopers were.
    Sorry but information is key to a traffic stop. Most traffic stops LEO is on edge and todays climate drivers are edge. But you do you and I will do me.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    32,092
    Takoma Park/Silver Spring
    ypu must have probable cause to believe its stolen under 4-206.

    Production of a permit negates further search under 4-206
    4-203b 2 exempts HGP :

    (2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

    If that section applies, then the officer does not have the right to search under 4-206:

    (a)(1) A law enforcement officer may make an inquiry and conduct a limited search of a person under paragraph (2) of this subsection if the officer, in light of the officer's observations, information, and experience, reasonably believes that:
    (i) the person may be wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle;
     

    brianns

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 29, 2015
    4,137
    Montgomery County
    4-203b 2 exempts HGP :

    (2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

    If that section applies, then the officer does not have the right to search under 4-206:

    (a)(1) A law enforcement officer may make an inquiry and conduct a limited search of a person under paragraph (2) of this subsection if the officer, in light of the officer's observations, information, and experience, reasonably believes that:
    (i) the person may be wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle;
    So if you display your permit, the officers can not search under 4-206, but can still do a limited search to determine if violations of 4-203 may be present?
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    50,215
    SoMD / West PA
    So if you display your permit, the officers can not search under 4-206, but can still do a limited search to determine if violations of 4-203 may be present?
    Search

    They can seize the firearm for the duration of the stop for their safety.
     

    trickg

    Guns 'n Drums
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 22, 2008
    14,960
    Glen Burnie
    So here's a legit question, or at least to me it seems like a legit question:

    I own many handguns that did not originate in Maryland and to my knowledge are not entered into any system anywhere. Those would still be perfectly legal for me to carry, but if they run the serial number, they aren't going to get anything back. What then?
     

    Tower43

    USMC - 0311
    Jul 6, 2010
    4,292
    Lusby, MD
    My daughter wrecked my car in LaPlata on 3-23-23 , no one hurt, and I went to get her and when I arrived I walked up to the Trooper and he said are you her father? I said yes I have a carry permit and I am armed...... Trooper said OK. He never asked for anything. Trooper was out of the LaPlata office. He was very professional.
    thats how its supposed to be. But disarming and running S/Ns is a no no
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    32,092
    Takoma Park/Silver Spring
    Here's 4-203. It doesn't deal with searches, from what I read:

    Transporting handgun.​

    § 4-203. Wearing, carrying, or transporting handgun.




    (a) Prohibited.-

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:

    (i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

    (ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;

    (iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or

    (iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

    (2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

    (b) Exceptions.- This section does not prohibit:

    (1) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is on active assignment engaged in law enforcement, is authorized at the time and under the circumstances to wear, carry, or transport the handgun as part of the person's official equipment, and is:

    (i) a law enforcement official of the United States, the State, or a county or city of the State;

    (ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard on duty or traveling to or from duty;

    (iii) a law enforcement official of another state or subdivision of another state temporarily in this State on official business;

    (iv) a correctional officer or warden of a correctional facility in the State;

    (v) a sheriff or full-time assistant or deputy sheriff of the State; or

    (vi) a temporary or part-time sheriff's deputy;

    (2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

    (3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

    (4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

    (5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

    (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

    (7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:

    (i) in the course of employment;

    (ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and

    (iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment;

    (8) the carrying or transporting of a signal pistol or other visual distress signal approved by the United States Coast Guard in a vessel on the waterways of the State or, if the signal pistol or other visual distress signal is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case, in a vehicle; or

    (9) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the handgun, if:

    (i) the handgun is unloaded;

    (ii) the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the handgun is being transported in accordance with the court order; and

    (iii) the person transports the handgun directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station.

    (c) Penalty.-

    (1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to the penalties provided in this subsection.

    (2) If the person has not previously been convicted under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:

    (i) except as provided in item (ii) of this paragraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 30 days and not exceeding 3 years or a fine of not less than $250 and not exceeding $2,500 or both; or

    (ii) if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not less than 90 days.

    (3) (i) If the person has previously been convicted once under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title:

    1. except as provided in item 2 of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 1 year and not exceeding 10 years; or

    2. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years.

    (ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.

    (4) (i) If the person has previously been convicted more than once under this section, § 4-204 of this subtitle, or § 4-101 or § 4-102 of this title, or of any combination of these crimes:

    1. except as provided in item (2) of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

    2. A. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

    B. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iv) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years.

    (ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.
     

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