Powder going bad?

[guzma393]

I been cleaning out my one-off powders as of late, either by utilizing them or bartering them off. I have a 1# jug of barely used cfe pistol that i seldom used since my go to powder has always been titegroup. I figured I should put the 1# jug of cfe pistol to good use and load 9mm with it.

As with my custom, I always take a whiff whenever I open a jug of powder to check if the smell is abnormal or obnoxious, and the cfe pistol smelled off...like old sour tennis balls off as opposed to the acetone solvent ether smell from typical smokeless powders.

Visually inspecting the powder, it looked fine and dry and the seal along the cap and jug is still good. This powder was stored in a garage cabinet for about little less than a year with regular checks on the caps to make sure they are sealed. It doesn't look like moisture seeped in aside from the off-putting smell.

I decided to try it anyways since it visually checks out, and loaded 25 rounds of 9mm to test. Anyone have any pointers on further approaching potentially bad powder?

 

[trickg]

I can’t imagine that it went bad - powder lasts a long time - decades is not unusual. I have a can of Hercules Herco in the cardboard tube canister that dates to the 90s and it’s completely fine.

Powders tend to have their own unique scent - could it be that’s how it’s supposed to smell?

 

[Park ranger]

Cfe hasn't been around that long. Unless you stored it horrible conditions. Should be fine

 

[platekiller]

If it was stored properly, I can’t imagine it going bad. I used win 680 in metal containers for x39 as recently as last year. I also have some metal cans of IMR powder. I haven’t had an issue with any.

 

[John from MD]

I'm still using some 30 year old powder with no issues. I don't know about new powder but when old powders like 4895 go bad, they smell acidic and they usually have a reddish tint to the powder. Someone told me that this was actually the nitric acid separating out.

 

[KRC]

Some powders do degrade more easily and faster than others, and can be dangerous, even while looking and smelling A-OK. BEWARE!

I loaded a ladder of .223 using the manufacturer's data for some old Tubal 3000 (Vectan), and the low loads blew the primers out and expanded the cases so much they were useless to reload. I'm glad I started shooting the low power loads first. Probably not worth the risk loading if something about an old powder is noticeably off.

 

[guzma393]

I got a second nose to smell their own jug of cfe pistol and they confirmed it does indeed smell like sour tennis balls. Tried the trial loads and they shot just fine, chrono numbers are consistent and true. Went ahead and loaded the rest with cfe pistol.

 

[Afrikeber]

I had the same concern with my muzzle loader pellets. They still go bang though.

 

[My Toy]

I used some W760 (when it came in a metal can) and Bullseye (when it came in a cardboard container) that I purchased in 1999 and spent five years of their life stored in a barn (with no heat or A/C) and was used in hand loads a couple of years ago. They both pasted the smell and appearance test and fired to the same point of impact that did recently purchased powders of the same kind. I've come to the conclusion that most powder if kept dry will last a long time. When you think about it I've fired military ammo that was head stamped 40 or 50 years ago and it still goes bang. So the powder s"stored" in those cases has probably been subjected to all sorts of storage conditions.

 

[Allen65]

I'm still using some 30 year old powder with no issues. I don't know about new powder but when old powders like 4895 go bad, they smell acidic and they usually have a reddish tint to the powder. Someone told me that this was actually the nitric acid separating out.

It's not nitric acid separating out as much as it is the nitrocelluose breaking down into nitric acid. And as the powder acidifies, it accelerates the breakdown process, which is why powder manufacturers add buffering compounds to act as preservatives. Once those buffers are all used up, degradation starts unimpeded.

The result is a mixture that has a completely unpredictable burn rate, and which, when kept in bulk (not 1lb cans), can retain enough heat from the exotherm of the breakdown to spontaneously ignite.

And that's in a single-base powder. In a double base, behavior of nitroglycerin in an acidic environment comes into play. I forget how it breaks down.

 

[firemn260]

I been cleaning out my one-off powders as of late, either by utilizing them or bartering them off. I have a 1# jug of barely used cfe pistol that i seldom used since my go to powder has always been titegroup. I figured I should put the 1# jug of cfe pistol to good use and load 9mm with it.

As with my custom, I always take a whiff whenever I open a jug of powder to check if the smell is abnormal or obnoxious, and the cfe pistol smelled off...like old sour tennis balls off as opposed to the acetone solvent ether smell from typical smokeless powders.

Visually inspecting the powder, it looked fine and dry and the seal along the cap and jug is still good. This powder was stored in a garage cabinet for about little less than a year with regular checks on the caps to make sure they are sealed. It doesn't look like moisture seeped in aside from the off-putting smell.

I decided to try it anyways since it visually checks out, and loaded 25 rounds of 9mm to test. Anyone have any pointers on further approaching potentially bad powder?

I thought it was just me and I had some weird fetish where I have to sniff a jug of powder every time I open it.
Im glad you brought up a legitimate reason to do it.

 

[guzma393]

I do it with gasoline as well. Reminds me of those days where my dad told me to take a whiff on some gasoline stored in gas containers to see if they are still good. I guess the habit transferred over to smokeless powders as well.

 

[Scottfs]

I have had old primers go bad after being stored in a garage for a couple decades. AND by garage, I mean absolutely no temperature/environmental controls. Hot in the summer/Cold in the winter.

I loaded light loads of .357 with powder (Unique) and Primers (CCI) that had been dry and in original containers but in a garage for literally close to 3 decades.

Shooting this combination was entertaining, to say the least. I was having some crazy flame-thrower fireballs coming out the barrel of my old Ruger Security Six (actually singed the hair on my knuckles It was quite the sight!

I bought some new primers, used the same (old) powder with the same bullet...and amazingly, normal, normal.

So, the moral of MY story is the primers degraded and couldn't flash hot enough to quickly ignite the powder...as such, the unburnt powder kept burning even as it left the barrel. My old Unique powder still worked. (still in it's original aluminum can).

If Unique fed better in my powder drops it would be gone by now. As crazy versatile as it is, it's an enduring pain in the ass to reload with

 

[FN509Fan]

I have had old primers go bad after being stored in a garage for a couple decades. AND by garage, I mean absolutely no temperature/environmental controls. Hot in the summer/Cold in the winter.

All my current powders and primers are 3 decades old and seem to be working fine.

I sniffed all the powders and tried a few primers in empty cases and didn't find any issues. I have Clays, W231, Unique, AA#5&7 and VV N350.

What I want to know is what sour tennis balls smell like. I walk my dog in the woods next to a dog park and every few weeks he finds a ball. Some are practically new, some grayed, and some falling apart. He loves to chew on all of them.

 

[wilcam47]

I didnt know you had to Biden sniff powder before you used/loaded it

 

[wpage]

If you keep it dry. It should last indefinitely.

 

[Allen65]

If you keep it dry. It should last indefinitely.

Not forever, but certainly decades. Temperature determines the rate of the breakdown of the nitrocelluose.