Post 6/23/2022 MD Wear & Carry Permit Application

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  • teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    48,801
    Bel Air
    DC-W I understand the "good and substantantial reason" is no longer valid. Very explicit to me,
    and maybe also Frosh. Might in his head says, IWNC with this.
    Next I've concluded from some commentators the other issue might be quoted as,
    1. of good moral character, reputation and qualification; and....
    directly from the //mdsp.maryland.gov

    So, Investigators call your Wife, 3 people are references and likely call your employer you refernanced
    last and or current employer. Possible investigators could conclude from a bad reference statement!
    Possible and quite evident if the people investigating are very progressive lefters like Frosh and many in MGA!

    Now you have a bad reputation!! Maybe.....
    That will be another court case. What your neighbor thinks is irrelevant. Only being adjudicated a mental defective or a felon have historically been prohibiting offenses. Maryland is going to have challenges from folks prohibited due to non-violent crimes.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    Apr 6, 2011
    10,864
    That’s exactly what was at issue in Bruen. Petitioners were granted permits that only let them arm themselves while hunting (time and place) and target shooting (another time and place). They had applied for unrestricted permits and were denied for lack of proper cause. There is a right to carry arms for personal defense in public. Restrictions that permit that only to doing business or for hunting, etc… violate this. See pp 6-7 and p 25 n 8 (starts on p 24).

    “Proper cause” requirements are intertwined with such restrictions. Further, there’s no reason to doubt or to claim that Maryland’s laws have not been found unconstitutional. Thomas firmly calls them out at between pp 4-6. I have those at the bottom. “Good and substantial reason” is analogous to “proper cause,” which the court dispenses with in this opinion.

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    View attachment 371331
    I'm very much aware of what they were applying for, but they didn't challenge the TPM restrictions, they challenged the "good cause" issue.

    As I stated, for now, TPM still stands. G&S did not.
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    22,823
    If Hogan has the power to direct the MSP to secure a supreme court justices home, while the AG objects.

    Then Hogan has the power to direct then MSP on "good and substantial"


    Of course Hogan has the power. Frosh lied, or at least his "opinion" was not based on law, but personal preference. No doubt he could come up with sufficient lawyerly obfuscation to pretend that he made his point.
     

    Fox123

    Active Member
    May 21, 2012
    3,688
    Rosedale, MD
    Of course fat ass has that authority.

    That same authority allows him to order the ignoring of G&S and to process applications.

    But he’s a piece of shit Rino.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    Apr 6, 2011
    10,864
    Of course Hogan has the power. Frosh lied, or at least his "opinion" was not based on law, but personal preference. No doubt he could come up with sufficient lawyerly obfuscation to pretend that he made his point.
    Did you read the opinion and the legal reasoning behind it, or are you just spouting off?

    While yes, he can choose to ignore the AG, he won't. And if he did I doubt the AG would sue him in court as a challenge.
     

    Fox123

    Active Member
    May 21, 2012
    3,688
    Rosedale, MD
    Cite for his authority?
    MD Code, Public Safety, § 2-202
    Formerly cited as MD CODE Art. 88B, § 14
    § 2-202. Secretary
    Currentness
    Appointment
    (a) The Governor shall appoint the Secretary of State Police with the advice and consent of the Senate.
    Qualifications
    (b)(1) The appointee shall be a citizen of the United States.
    (2) The appointee shall be qualified on the basis of training, experience, and ability to discharge the duties of the Secretary.
    Term
    (c) The Secretary serves at the pleasure of the Governor.
    Salary
    (d) The Secretary is entitled to the salary provided in the State budget.
    Duties
    (e)(1) The Secretary shall supervise and direct the affairs and operations of the Department.

    (2) The Secretary is responsible for carrying out the Governor's policies with respect to those matters specified in Titles 2, 4, 5, 11, and 14 of this article.

    (3) The Secretary shall report to the Governor.

    The State police is currently enforcing unconstitutional law.

    Do your Job Larry.
     

    ras_oscar

    Active Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,473
    I find the position interesting that the 16 hours training is intended to be punitive rather than further the interested of public safety. The MSP academy web page states of firearms training:

    You will spend two weeks with the Firearms Training Unit mastering both the Glock Model 22 .40 caliber handgun and a patrol shotgun. You will learn defensive tactics (including boxing and martial arts) and officer survival.

    I wonder how much of that 80 hours of instruction is on firearms safety?
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    22,823
    Did you read the opinion and the legal reasoning behind it, or are you just spouting off?

    While yes, he can choose to ignore the AG, he won't. And if he did I doubt the AG would sue him in court as a challenge.
    Yes, I read enough to assure me that Larry was merely being cowardly, and that Frosh seemed to be exceeding his authority.

    "Spouting off" is a little bit pejorative. I take comfort in knowing that I retain private conversations, when broadcasting them works to the disadvantage of my intended goals.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    22,861
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    If Hogan has the power to direct the MSP to secure a supreme court justices home, while the AG objects.

    Then Hogan has the power to direct then MSP on "good and substantial"

    Fat Larry actually did that for the Justices? Or did he just bumble along with his shoelaces tied together like he usually does? I didn't see it in the news yet...
     

    clandestine

    Active Member
    Oct 13, 2008
    36,151
    Lots of people were wrong with their predictions on how this would all pan out.

    We should be thankful for what we have won and continue to push forward.
     

    Fox123

    Active Member
    May 21, 2012
    3,688
    Rosedale, MD
    It could be said again the MSP are not innocent in delaying either.

    Even if they wanted to follow the letter of the current unconstitutional law, “because the Supreme Court said so” is a pretty good and substantial reason.


    They could be issuing permits without any change to the law.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    45,333
    SoMD / West PA
    It could be said again the MSP are not innocent in delaying either.

    Even if they wanted to follow the letter of the current unconstitutional law, “because the Supreme Court said so” is a pretty good and substantial reason.
    If the MSP was honest, they would be processing the self-defense permit applications.

    Processing is vastly different than approving.

    So in effect they are slow rolling applications on their own accord.
     

    camo556

    Active Member
    Aug 29, 2021
    2,241
    It could be said again the MSP are not innocent in delaying either.

    Even if they wanted to follow the letter of the current unconstitutional law, “because the Supreme Court said so” is a pretty good and substantial reason.


    They could be issuing permits without any change to the law.
    I see what you did there.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    600
    Baltimore
    I find the position interesting that the 16 hours training is intended to be punitive rather than further the interested of public safety. The MSP academy web page states of firearms training:

    You will spend two weeks with the Firearms Training Unit mastering both the Glock Model 22 .40 caliber handgun and a patrol shotgun. You will learn defensive tactics (including boxing and martial arts) and officer survival.

    I wonder how much of that 80 hours of instruction is on firearms safety?
    The 16 hours of training required is not ‘punitive.’ The MGA presumably intended it for individuals with absolutely no previous knowledge or experience with firearms of any sort.

    We all know that there are millions of people around us who know nothing but what they’ve seen on TV and in movies. That’s who actually needs comprehensive safety instructions and guidance on how not to injure themselves or others.

    You should be glad the MGA didn’t specify 40 hours of training.
     

    rseymorejr

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    22,183
    Harford County
    The 16 hours of training required is not ‘punitive.’ The MGA presumably intended it for individuals with absolutely no previous knowledge or experience with firearms of any sort.

    We all know that there are millions of people around us who know nothing but what they’ve seen on TV and in movies. That’s who actually needs comprehensive safety instructions and guidance on how not to injure themselves or others.

    You should be glad the MGA didn’t specify 40 hours of training.
    So most of the states, that require training, require 4 hours or less. The rest of the country isn't having a rash of accidental shootings. So I guess the MGA thinks the average Marylander is 4 times dumber than the average American. Either that or wanted to make the training as expensive and inconvenient as possible to discurage people from applying.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    17,994
    The 16 hours of training required is not ‘punitive.’ The MGA presumably intended it for individuals with absolutely no previous knowledge or experience with firearms of any sort.

    We all know that there are millions of people around us who know nothing but what they’ve seen on TV and in movies. That’s who actually needs comprehensive safety instructions and guidance on how not to injure themselves or others.

    You should be glad the MGA didn’t specify 40 hours of training.
    How much training was required in 1791 and 1868 in order to bear arms? May as well look up the answers for number of references, and minimum number of hits on a target also.
     

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