Position Your Spare Mags Properly

[jrumann59]

To be honest, he did 2 mag dumps into a vehicle not seeing the target. Seems there were many mag dumps into that truck and the guy still survived. He could have had 40 round mags and I doubt it would have made a difference.
He could have at least done controlled pairs to allow him to close the gap and land better shots.

The cop in the truck who rammed him, should have been lobbing rounds through his windshield immediately after crashing him.
The reload cop(#2) was lucky he didn't get out immediately because truck ram cop sped right past his driver's side and could have easily hit him.

I bet they had carbines and not 1 thought to grab it and take care of business from a distance.

The truck cop did clip his vehicle.

 

[safegunners]

The officers certainly had some issues but the even bigger takeaway here is, this guy shoots at the officers, they shoot back and once he is subdued they instinctively render medical aid without hesitation.

 

[lazarus]

What he said. I am still not sure exactly what happened with those reloads, why wasn't his reload indexed and up when he ejected the spent mag and so many other questions. Looks like a bunch of bad training shown by the results. I'm with Blaster on this one, practicing reloads is critical. I have these for safe practice with my duty pistol and practice in the dark so there is no cheating.

Yeah, the range I am a member at I can't practice from a holster and a number of other GOOD safety rules (least common denominator, we are all RSOs, but since CRSO are only there for competitions, and the standard of training, even following NRA standards, isn't that high. Especially if you have some guy who got the RSO safety training 20 years ago).

BUT, I can still practice reloads. Ensure the handgun stays pointed in a safe direction down range the entire time, well I'd effectively be doing that anyway. Fire has to be controlled, check. I usually practice with two mags with 2 rounds in each and 2 in the gun. Two quick (aimed) shots at the target, grab spare, drop mag, insert mag, drop slide, rinse and repeat. Plus, dry fire practice at home doing that (well, nothing in the gun or mags then).

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Yeah, the range I am a member at I can't practice from a holster and a number of other GOOD safety rules (least common denominator, we are all RSOs, but since CRSO are only there for competitions, and the standard of training, even following NRA standards, isn't that high. Especially if you have some guy who got the RSO safety training 20 years ago).

BUT, I can still practice reloads. Ensure the handgun stays pointed in a safe direction down range the entire time, well I'd effectively be doing that anyway. Fire has to be controlled, check. I usually practice with two mags with 2 rounds in each and 2 in the gun. Two quick (aimed) shots at the target, grab spare, drop mag, insert mag, drop slide, rinse and repeat. Plus, dry fire practice at home doing that (well, nothing in the gun or mags then).

Likes the above practices of "as safe as possible" practicing techniques that essentially eliminate any unintended injuries or fatal consequences.

 

[rbird7282]

What he said. I am still not sure exactly what happened with those reloads, why wasn't his reload indexed and up when he ejected the spent mag and so many other questions. Looks like a bunch of bad training shown by the results. I'm with Blaster on this one, practicing reloads is critical. I have these for safe practice with my duty pistol and practice in the dark so there is no cheating.

I would never train with different mags like that, not the same weight/feel, etc.

Why wouldn’t you just use your standard mags?


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[outrider58]

Yeah, tourniquets hurt more than the wound sometimes. Please tell me he paid for his stupidity...

 

[Mr. Ed]

The officers certainly had some issues but the even bigger takeaway here is, this guy shoots at the officers, they shoot back and once he is subdued they instinctively render medical aid without hesitation.

I admire their dedication, and can't imagine how hard it must be to have to try to save the life of some ******* who just tried to kill one of them. I'm not wired that way.

 

[Reloader]

I don't understand how he could have been not carrying the mags in the right direction, but, I have seen quite a few law enforcement take up IDPA and...well you know.

 

[BigWilly]

During this shit show of police chase and shoot out, the biggest cringe moment(among the many) stood out the most.

Cop was mag dumping into the truck and it's clearly visible that his mags came out of the pouches backwards and he literally fumbles to turn them around to reload. This happened TWICE. Also both times he ended up having to rip the empty mags out of his pistol. Almost like he didn't hit the mag release until his hand was up and pulling it out. Also didn't bring the pistol back into his "workspace".
(Note... as he was shooting, the cop in the truck who t boned the perp, is still in his truck shooting and had not gotten out yet.) Cringe moment.

I was watching the show Bosch and in one episode Bosch did a reload, and did it with his mag backwards. I made a comment on his Instagram about it and he said that he did it properly, it was just that he "Beer canned"? it method. Never heard of that.

Anyway, start out at 3 minutes if you want to get to the meat and potatoes of this.

Practice your reloads please.

So Bosch is my all time favorite shows. The rare occurrence where the show was as good as the books. Blaster229 can you point me to what you are talking about in the show please? I'd like to see what you're talking about. For some reason, it's ringing a bell, but I can't find it.

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[outrider58]

I don't understand how he could have been not carrying the mags in the right direction, but, I have seen quite a few law enforcement take up IDPA and...well you know.

I only watched it once, but it looked to me that they came out of the pouch with the correct index, he was just too hyped up buy the long high speed chase and subsequent gunfire. He was grasping them like they were bananas, not paying attention to the shapes in his hand. In a way, understandable, but hopefully he learned a valuable survival lesson that day and trains more.

 

[Reloader]

I only watched it once, but it looked to me that they came out of the pouch with the correct index, he was just too hyped up buy the long high speed chase and subsequent gunfire. He was gasping them like they were bananas, not paying attention to the shapes in his hand. In a way, understandable, but hopefully he learned a valuable survival lesson that day and trains more.

You're probably right, I need to look at it again, and he was definitely hyped.

 

[md77]

I would never train with different mags like that, not the same weight/feel, etc.

Why wouldn’t you just use your standard mags?


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I have the weighted ones that replicate a loaded mag. Reason I use those is safety. The only way to have a live reload mag be the same weight it is going to be when you are getting it into the pistol is to fill it with the things that go bang and make holes. Every range I have been to has a hole someplace it shouldn't be. Everyone knows it will never happen to them because they know what they are doing, but those holes come from somewhere.

 

[Johnny5k]

You could also get a bunch of dummy rounds, the weight is pretty close. I use the aluminum ones, the plastic ones are too light.

 

[rbird7282]

I have the weighted ones that replicate a loaded mag. Reason I use those is safety. The only way to have a live reload mag be the same weight it is going to be when you are getting it into the pistol is to fill it with the things that go bang and make holes. Every range I have been to has a hole someplace it shouldn't be. Everyone knows it will never happen to them because they know what they are doing, but those holes come from somewhere.

You could also get a bunch of dummy rounds, the weight is pretty close. I use the aluminum ones, the plastic ones are too light.

This. I'd still rather use dummy rounds and original mags.

 

[md77]

Whatever works for you is cool. I was just tossing out an option I find value in because it is exceptionally safe. I can't be bothered to use dummy rounds because I stress about a live one finding its way in, so all the enjoyment is gone for me. Practicing to get better is the key, not the way you do it or what you use. IMO

 

[rbird7282]

Whatever works for you is cool. I was just tossing out an option I find value in because it is exceptionally safe. I can't be bothered to use dummy rounds because I stress about a live one finding its way in, so all the enjoyment is gone for me. Practicing to get better is the key, not the way you do it or what you use. IMO

That's cool. Wasn't trying to break balls. Safety is always first and foremost.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Were they trying to actually shoot him , or just shooting over the roof of the truck to keep his head down ?

 

[lazarus]

I have the weighted ones that replicate a loaded mag. Reason I use those is safety. The only way to have a live reload mag be the same weight it is going to be when you are getting it into the pistol is to fill it with the things that go bang and make holes. Every range I have been to has a hole someplace it shouldn't be. Everyone knows it will never happen to them because they know what they are doing, but those holes come from somewhere.

Dummy carts.

Metal snap caps are fairly close in weight to real ones. Or just load up a bunch of uncharged, unprimed cartridges if you reload. Those are going to be spot on weight within about half an ounce (missing powder and primers).

 

[lazarus]

Whatever works for you is cool. I was just tossing out an option I find value in because it is exceptionally safe. I can't be bothered to use dummy rounds because I stress about a live one finding its way in, so all the enjoyment is gone for me. Practicing to get better is the key, not the way you do it or what you use. IMO

I do to. It makes real sure I spend the time to be positive every single thing I am loading into the magazine or firearm is not a live round.

I then move away from any area where live rounds can be (which in my case is ONLY in an ammo box. The only time live ammo is not in an ammo box in my gun room is in my safe, or if I am actively reloading, and then as soon as I am done, it gets put in an ammo box and then I clean up my reloading supplies).

 

[lazarus]

Were they trying to actually shoot him , or just shooting over the roof of the truck to keep his head down ?

Hard to tell. You can see a few bullet holes in the sheet metal and you can see some impact/impacted his auto glass. Based on the number of rounds fired though, it sort of does look like the majority of them missed his truck, let alone impacted around where it would take to generate a hit. Fairs fair, the cops were moving, getting shot at, under a ton of stress. However, it didn't appear that any of them aimed at all, and all shoots were "point in the general direction and pull the trigger as fast as possible". Though obviously pretty hard to see based on camera positions.

Which also apparently means that for the most part, many shots could not even hit the broadside of a pickup truck at close range.