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  • Jimgoespewpew

    Member
    Mar 6, 2021
    803
    Here we are in September 2022 and irregardless still isn't a word.
     

    Occam

    Recovering Lurker
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    16,221
    Montgomery County
    Have had great luck with Trijicon, but haven't yet found a reason to dislike the SIG Romeo on one of my more diminutive pistols. What I do know is that with older (read: over 40!) eyes, a little time spent getting used to an RDS is a revelation for some kinds of shooting. A lot of accuracy that might otherwise escape. So accurate you could even shoot the unnecessary "ir" right off the word "regardless" at 35 yards, no problem :-)
     

    woodline

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I'm a closed emitter RDS fan. I like the holosun and aimpoint ACRO closed emitter optics.

    That being said I own the P1 and P2. My P2 battery died last week after only 6 months. Medium dot setting.

    The P1 would do the same in 3 months.
    Wow that is not exactly close to advertised battery life, thanks for the update. Makes the Steiner MPS more interesting to me, even with the . . . unique . . . look to it.
     

    Cal68

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 4, 2014
    1,574
    Montgomery County
    I had been using Trijicon RMR's almost exclusively until Dan at Maryland's Elite Firearms (aka Baltimore's Best Pawn) convinced me to try a Holosun green dot sight (I think it is the 509 model but cannot be 100% sure). I find that I can pick up the green dot faster than the red dot and the larger window on the Holosun is also very helpful. It does not hurt that the Holosun costs less than the Trijicon either. Anyway, I am a convert to Holosun now. YMMV!

    Cal68
     

    BigWilly

    oK, nOw WhAt ?
    Mar 23, 2011
    485
    Dundalk
    I have 2 Holosuns - 507k x2 G and 507c x2 ACSS. I really like the ACSS Vulcan reticle. It has a 10 MOA chevron and is enclosed by a 100 MOA circle which helps you get centered. Both are green which I use on all my optics because I am color blind and pick up green easier then red. I hope they bring the ACSS Vulcan to the k series as that is what my EDC uses.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Active Member
    Oct 24, 2017
    2,690
    Timonium-Lutherville
    The ACRO is solid but it’s a freaking microwave on your handgun.

    With cost not a factor, Trijicon, Aimpoint, and Leupold are probably the way.

    That said, the latest iteration of the Holosun micro dots are very solid, but they are made in China. Personally, the reticle choices of the Holosuns and the clarity (since they are reflex style sights) are what work best for me.

    The new Holosun SCS is very low profile and cowitnesses with stock height sights.
     

    md77

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 17, 2022
    106
    MoCo
    Another vote for the Holosun although I have not shot the Acro. The Trijicon is a great sight but you have to take it off the pistol to change the battery and regardless of claims I woukd feel the need to check zero. The Holosun closed emitters let you change the battery with a flathead screwdriver without dismounting the sight. With any of the choices you mdsh eat to take a look at the green dot. I find the green dot easier to use than red. One of the reasons night vision in the past showed in green is the fact that the human eye can (in general) pick up more shades of green than any other color, which makes it "easier" to look at. Although it doesn't apply to me, the green is supposed to be better if you have an astigmatism.
     

    clandestine

    Active Member
    Oct 13, 2008
    36,459
    Wow that is not exactly close to advertised battery life, thanks for the update. Makes the Steiner MPS more interesting to me, even with the . . . unique . . . look to it.
    My story is an example of one, so I wouldn't make a decision solely on what I posted.

    For what it's worth, one of the best RDS Tactics instructors (Scott Jedlinski) recommends changing a RDS battery once every 3-6 month regardless of what the manufacturer claims.
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    39,592
    Open emitter. Closed emitter. Personal preference. What everyone's major(as in in the top three) concern should be is emitter speed. The thing a lot of people miss is how red dot feedback is a great shot diagnosis tool. Whether dry firing or live fire on a range, you need to be able to watch your dot through the the trigger press or shot cycle. That alone will tell you whether your trigger press(finger position) is correct for you. It will also tell you if you have a grip problem. You have to be able to read your dot.

    What is emitter speed? It is the speed in which the dot regenerates itself. Take a fast regenerating dot such as on a Trijicon RMR. Hold the dot or gun at arm's length and, while keeping the dot 'in frame', move it up and down(or side to side) rapidly. You will see a solid red line _____. Take a crappy red dot with a slower emitter and do the same thing. You will something like this . . . . Now, imagine that at full recoil speed. You'd be lucky to see much of the dot at all, let alone visually follow its path.

    Just something to consider when picking a PRD sight.

    One last comment(from me) on co-witnessing iron sights. It's nice to have them, just in case your dot goes down, but you will eventually find that putting the dot in the middle of the lens is much quicker. Eventually, you will stop using the irons all together. At least while your dot is working. And that's the way it should be.
     

    woodline

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    My story is an example of one, so I wouldn't make a decision solely on what I posted.

    For what it's worth, one of the best RDS Tactics instructors (Scott Jedlinski) recommends changing a RDS battery once every 3-6 month regardless of what the manufacturer claims.
    I agree that a single datapoint isn’t a good reason to buy/not buy a product, but am interested to see if there are more reports like yours. Any indication it was a bad battery, or are you thinking your experience will be the norm? I like to give optics a good year or two on the market before I jump on them. I rarely have mystery problems with optics, and would like to keep it that way.

    Jedi is a well respected instructor, so I would be foolish to ignore his opinion.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,098
    Rockville, MD
    I've seen a bunch of Steiner MPS failures on Facebook from people I know... I'd avoid them for a bit until Steiner figures out what's going on there.

    That said, if you put enough rounds down range, you will kill optics eventually. I think I'm up to like half a dozen at this point.
     

    woodline

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I've seen a bunch of Steiner MPS failures on Facebook from people I know... I'd avoid them for a bit until Steiner figures out what's going on there.

    That said, if you put enough rounds down range, you will kill optics eventually. I think I'm up to like half a dozen at this point.
    Good to know.

    I have in fact destroyed a good number of optics (mostly at work), but I know what happened to them. I tend to avoid optics when they first come out so that I can avoid getting surprise kills on them, if at all possible.
     

    smokey0118

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    29,052
    I've got a red 407c and a green 407k. I was going to toss the eps carry green 2moa on my 43xmos, but absolutely nowhere had one until after october. I like the eps carry in theory because of the enclosed emitter. Enclosed emitters allow for the user to quickly wipe the front and back glass if the gun gets into crud, whereas open emitters are pretty much toast if anything is between the emitter and the glass until you can scoop it out. The drawback is the closed emitters I've looked through have more fisheye distortion and slightly less light transmission because of looking through two sheets of glass instead of one. I'm not sure how this plays out in any real-world setting(mayyyyyybe something to consider if a badguy has night vision???), but the open emitter does throw some light up on you in your waistband at night. I don't know if closed would shield this more, but I noticed it while walking the dog a week or so ago.

    As far as the 407 c and 407 K, I went with the 407 instead of the 507 because I was just not interested in the big-ass ring. The acss vulcan caught my eye a bit, but my muscle memory is good enough to immediately pickup the dots when I punch the guns out. I prefer the smaller 2moa dots over the 6moa green 407k dot, but the dot is small enough in practice to be perfectly functional for any defense-type distance. The green one does seem to be easier to see across backgrounds compared to the red dot. I feel like I need to match the brightness to the lighting conditions more with the red dot than I do with the green.

    The holosun optics have all done very well with cowan's testing over at sagedynamics and mine feel very solid. They've given me no problems through a couple thousand rounds now. The only thing is that, being open emitters, I've occasionally got to wipe off the inside lens to clear dust and hit the emitter with a q-tip to get dust out from there. I like the side battery trays for both and the ability to set the shake-awake time for the 407c. With the side battery trays, I was able to just toss a new battery in while the gun was still holstered in the harris teeter parking lot. It makes keeping them topped off super easy. I also like the solar-charging on the 407C as an added measure of reliability.

    So, if you can find one and need something small, the eps seems awesome. If you're looking for something more for target, then a world of larger windows opens up that don't necessarily need to be enclosed.
    20220921_202640.jpg
    20220918_172402.jpg
    1663461385156.jpg
     

    outrider58

    Pronouns: It, That
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    39,592
    I've got a red 407c and a green 407k. I was going to toss the eps carry green 2moa on my 43xmos, but absolutely nowhere had one until after october. I like the eps carry in theory because of the enclosed emitter. Enclosed emitters allow for the user to quickly wipe the front and back glass if the gun gets into crud, whereas open emitters are pretty much toast if anything is between the emitter and the glass until you can scoop it out. The drawback is the closed emitters I've looked through have more fisheye distortion and slightly less light transmission because of looking through two sheets of glass instead of one. I'm not sure how this plays out in any real-world setting(mayyyyyybe something to consider if a badguy has night vision???), but the open emitter does throw some light up on you in your waistband at night. I don't know if closed would shield this more, but I noticed it while walking the dog a week or so ago.

    As far as the 407 c and 407 K, I went with the 407 instead of the 507 because I was just not interested in the big-ass ring. The acss vulcan caught my eye a bit, but my muscle memory is good enough to immediately pickup the dots when I punch the guns out. I prefer the smaller 2moa dots over the 6moa green 407k dot, but the dot is small enough in practice to be perfectly functional for any defense-type distance. The green one does seem to be easier to see across backgrounds compared to the red dot. I feel like I need to match the brightness to the lighting conditions more with the red dot than I do with the green.

    The holosun optics have all done very well with cowan's testing over at sagedynamics and mine feel very solid. They've given me no problems through a couple thousand rounds now. The only thing is that, being open emitters, I've occasionally got to wipe off the inside lens to clear dust and hit the emitter with a q-tip to get dust out from there. I like the side battery trays for both and the ability to set the shake-awake time for the 407c. With the side battery trays, I was able to just toss a new battery in while the gun was still holstered in the harris teeter parking lot. It makes keeping them topped off super easy. I also like the solar-charging on the 407C as an added measure of reliability.

    So, if you can find one and need something small, the eps seems awesome. If you're looking for something more for target, then a world of larger windows opens up that don't necessarily need to be enclosed. View attachment 381982 View attachment 381983 View attachment 381984
    Say, are you related to... oh never mind. ;)
     

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