NYC CCW case is at SCOTUS!

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  • Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    18,315
    Let me give you a look into the future of firearms litigation post Bruen.

    There is a case in the courts regarding Delawares ban on so called "ghost guns' and unserialized firearms. The judge asked for briefs from both sides "....to address the effect of the
    Supreme Court’s recent decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Assn., Inc. v. Bruen in this case." It won't take long they are only 5 pages each.

    The Conservative viewpoint:

    The Liberal take on the same subject:


    Here is a link to the Court Docket with all the filings:
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,121
    Not just that, but in Maryland they cannot campaign during session. It's an election year and getting close to the election. Unless they pre-write all of the bills...and that'll take a bit of time too, even if Bloomberg hands them the text.

    I honestly don't know enough about Maryland's special session operating procedures and MD law/constitution. But wouldn't MD still need to hold public hearings in committee even if it is single issue session? Or does it being a special session side step those requirements for the bill to be introduced in committee, debated and voted out?

    At any rate, even has shady as MGA is, I think it would be a miracle for a special session on such a controversial set of bills/bill this would end up being that it didn't bog down for at least days. Maybe not weeks, but I cannot imagine MGA wants to stop that campaign trail and trying to raise campaign funds for what could be a week or weeks.
    Per the State Constitution, every bill is required to have an initial public hearing, for comment, regardless of the session (regular v special). So yes, any special session would have a committee hearing on whatever bill(s) they present.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,121
    Of course, if you are intent at reaching a specific, pre-determined end state from the start, no matter what vehicle is available, you'll probably find a way to get there even if the route is incredibly tortuous. See the District Court decision in Kolbe for a shining example of logic and reality twisted into a pretzel.
    But the decision in Kolbe used the (now dead) 2A 2 step process. Given the new guidance using THT, they would now have to become some sort of possessed demon to come up with such a decision today.
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    5,062
    Anne Arundel County
    Per the State Constitution, every bill is required to have an initial public hearing, for comment, regardless of the session (regular v special). So yes, any special session would have a committee hearing on whatever bill(s) they present.
    A hearing is required, but there's no requirement to accept any public testimony during the hearing. It could be a "This is what we're doing to you. Deal with it." event and be perfectly within the law.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,121
    Any hearings could be trivial and with no public participation, leading directly to a vote. IIRC there's nothing in the law stopping a committee from passing a bill the same day it goes to the committee with zero public input.
    There actually is, it is spelled out in the State Constitution. It requires one vote (reader) per legislative day and it requires ALL bills to have an initial public committee hearing.

    Article 3, section 27(a) covers how a bill is passed:
    SEC. 27. (a) Any bill may originate in either House of the General Assembly and be altered, amended or rejected by the other. No bill shall originate in either House during the last thirty-five calendar days of a regular session, unless two-thirds of the members elected thereto shall so determine by yeas and nays, and in addition the two Houses by joint and similar rule may further regulate the right to introduce bills during this period. A bill may not become a law until it is read on three different days of the session in each House, unless two-thirds of the members elected to the House where such bill is pending determine by yeas and nays, and no bill shall be read a third time until it shall have been actually engrossed or printed for a third reading.
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    5,062
    Anne Arundel County
    There actually is, it is spelled out in the State Constitution. It requires one vote (reader) per legislative day and it requires ALL bills to have an initial public committee hearing.

    Article 3, section 27(a) covers how a bill is passed:
    SEC. 27. (a) Any bill may originate in either House of the General Assembly and be altered, amended or rejected by the other. No bill shall originate in either House during the last thirty-five calendar days of a regular session, unless two-thirds of the members elected thereto shall so determine by yeas and nays, and in addition the two Houses by joint and similar rule may further regulate the right to introduce bills during this period. A bill may not become a law until it is read on three different days of the session in each House, unless two-thirds of the members elected to the House where such bill is pending determine by yeas and nays, and no bill shall be read a third time until it shall have been actually engrossed or printed for a third reading.
    Yes. But multiple legislative days can occur in a single calendar day. We've both witnessed that happen. When I use the word "day", I'm mean calendar day, not some proprietary construct of MGA leadership.

    Is public input mandatory during a hearing, or does public hearing just mean the committee discussion of, and vote on, the bill is observable by the public? I think the person upthread who started this line of discussion was asking if the public will have a chance to testify against a bill in committee.
     
    Last edited:

    delaware_export

    Active Member
    Apr 10, 2018
    1,945
    Couldn’t have said it better myself. ;)




    Let me give you a look into the future of firearms litigation post Bruen.

    There is a case in the courts regarding Delawares ban on so called "ghost guns' and unserialized firearms. The judge asked for briefs from both sides "....to address the effect of the
    Supreme Court’s recent decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Assn., Inc. v. Bruen in this case." It won't take long they are only 5 pages each.

    The Conservative viewpoint:

    The Liberal take on the same subject:


    Here is a link to the Court Docket with all the filings:
     
    Last edited:

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,121
    Yes. But multiple legislative days can occur in a single calendar day. We've both witnessed that happen. When I use the word "day", I'm mean calendar day, not some proprietary construct of MGA leadership.

    Is public input mandatory during a hearing, or does public hearing just mean the committee discussion of, and vote on, the bill is observable by the public? I think the person upthread who started this line of discussion was asking if the public will have a chance to testify against a bill in committee.
    The initial public hearing is required to permit public testimony, if the bill is passed by the sponsoring chamber, the 2nd chamber and subsiquent committee hearing is not required to permit public testimony. We have seen that public testimony time wittled down from 3 minutes to as little as 1 minute over the past several years.

    As for the legislative days v calendar days, that is spelled out as well in the State Constitution and is not a Construct of the MGA leadership. Legislative days are gavelled in and gavelled out, at the beginning of the session, they generally take the weekends (Saturday & Sunday) off as well as the few national holidays. The State Constitution requires the Legislature to complete it's business in 90 continuous days (Article 3, Section 15), so for those days that are not gavelled in, they save them until the end to "get things done in short order.
     

    FrankZ

    Liberty = Responsibility
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 25, 2012
    2,301
    Just wondering to myself...

    What would happen, in regards to the NYSRPA ruling if MD decided to do away with preemption? Suddenly there could be a patchwork on inconsistency in how it all works. Would removal of preemption and some modifications to the current wear and carry code allow places like Baltimore City to issue their own permit?

    I wonder if this would be a shenanigan too far...
     

    Apd09

    Member
    May 30, 2013
    718
    Westminster, MD
    The initial public hearing is required to permit public testimony, if the bill is passed by the sponsoring chamber, the 2nd chamber and subsiquent committee hearing is not required to permit public testimony. We have seen that public testimony time wittled down from 3 minutes to as little as 1 minute over the past several years.

    As for the legislative days v calendar days, that is spelled out as well in the State Constitution and is not a Construct of the MGA leadership. Legislative days are gavelled in and gavelled out, at the beginning of the session, they generally take the weekends (Saturday & Sunday) off as well as the few national holidays. The State Constitution requires the Legislature to complete it's business in 90 continuous days (Article 3, Section 15), so for those days that are not gavelled in, they save them until the end to "get things done in short order.

    I would love to get a movement together when they allow public input, as many people as can get to sign up or attend and speak.
    When the one minute starts it’s a very simple script:
    [name], “the 2nd amendment states: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
    With that said “Text, History, Tradition.” I now yield the remainder of my time. “

    And person after person after person just repeats that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    beavisman1

    Band Member
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 25, 2022
    107
    Virginia
    I’m sure the same arguments could be made when slavery was abolished: “we had it this way for so long, what do you mean our history doesn’t support it?”

    Depravation of rights is wrong no matter how long it’s been going on. It just so happens NY decided to deny the right to bear arms for about 100 years.

    Remember, interracial marriage wasn’t legal until the 1960s (Loving v. Virginia). Doesn’t mean the denial of interracial couples the right to marry was any better just because it went on for so long.

    Yes. That's exactly what's going to happen. Liberal judges will view long standing abuses of our civil rights as in line with text, history, and tradition, consistent with how the Taney court ruled in the Dred Scott decision. Liberals don't see their actions as abusive towards civil rights, because they do not believe the right to keep and bear arms exists.
     

    beavisman1

    Band Member
    BANNED!!!
    Jun 25, 2022
    107
    Virginia
    Would you stop with the BGOS...Jumping Jesus Christ on a POGO Stick dude...
    BGOS is the acceptance that your 2A rights will be trampled, symptons often include compliance with laws and regulations that don't exist. The guy that is scared to purchase an AR with a bull barrell from a MD dealer because HBAR isn't stamped on it, the guy who won't let his wife fire his handgun at the range for fear of "transferring" a standard capacity magazine, and all the other stuff is BGOS.

    Telling people that the liberal moon bats are gonna keep trying to stick it to us may be pessimistic but it sure is realistic. Very few courts paid Heller/McDonald any mind, expect even fewer to acknowledge Breun.
     
    Last edited:

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,282
    Bel Air
    BGOS is the acceptance that your 2A rights will be trampled, symptons often include compliance with laws and regulations that don't exist. The guy that is scared to purchase an AR with a bull barrell from a MD dealer because HBAR isn't stamped on it, the guy who won't let his wife fire his handfun at the range for fear of "transferring" a standard capacity magazine, and all the other stuff is BGOS.

    Telling people that the liberal moon bats are gonna get trying to stick it to us may be pessimistic but it sure is realistic. Very few courts paid Heller/McDonald any mind, expect even fewer to acknowledge Breun.
    BGOS is the EXPECTATION that your rights will be trampled upon with no evidence.
     

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