TRACT Optics

NYC CCW case is at SCOTUS!

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,768
    If everyone would take the time to read all the current cases pending, as well as all the new cases filed on and since June 23rd, one would see all these states temper tantrums is coming to head.

    Not to mention that on a few of the cases, requests have allready been filed for stays to be lifted, Injunctions and enjoinments to be enacted. Several on immediate emergency orders as well.

    Take a look at the latest motion for Miller v Bonta, filed on June 30th.
    Then take a look at Rupp v Bonta.

    Let the states throw all the temper tantrums they want. In 90-120 days, you will find that various states appeal process will be over flowing with appeals, as well as hundreds if not more cases filed in federal and state courts. To the point of so many, that they will eventually capitulate.

    For those states that want to check social media? Well good luck. Never been on any and never will be. Never been on Facebook or anything similar. So they will be hard pressed.

    Training? Well a a group of us instructors that will cover for each other.
    Not to hard to do.

    MD though has an exemption for Instructors, even for renewals. MD isn’t the only state that has exemptions for Instructors. Why should instructors take the same course they teach that’s crazy!

    What I am saying is one of the states will push it to far and piss SCOTUS off and get a ruling they won’t like even more.

    They are all idiots for thinking that challenges won’t end up back at SCOTUS. They are idiots if they really think that a conservative force of 6 justices will change their opinion anytime soon and they will win at SC level. Especially after the SC has done Bruen and Dobbs, And EPA, and many more this year.

    Even a SC expert said that This year is just the beginning of the court swinging Right with many conservative opinions. It will go even more right next year.

    Yes, it has been 10 years since we have had a 2A case granted cert. now since April 2021, we have had 5 2A cases granted cert. 4 GVR cases still count as a Grant!

    Expect more in the near the future. That’s why I said they are idiots if they don’t think their laws will be challenged, and even bigger idiots if they think they have a chance in Hell of winning with 6 conservative Justices.
    Honestly I think it is a convergence of two things.

    I think, unless they actually are idiots and I don't think many of them are, they expect some/most/all of what they are doing is going too get struck down and struck down hard.

    But it is a VOTING tactic. LOOK WE ARE TRYING TO PROTECT YOU FROM SCARY GUNS AND THE CONSERVATIVES ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU!!!! Drive the voters to the polls come November. Drive the donations now. It's a bill about getting votes and donations.

    The other is, I honestly think they expect courts to go along, or at least go along enough that they won't do things like slap immediate injunctions on the new law prior to review. As sweeping and as extreme as NY's new law is, I would absolutely slap an injunction until it could be decided in court (now, don't get me wrong, I am not judge. But I HAVE once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express).

    So I think its those two driving it. If they really expected the courts to immediately slap a pause on it (or within weeks, someone still has to file suit and request an injunction which will take some time), I am not sure they would have gone quite as extreme. Maybe still, after all, voters.

    On Volhka, I disagree with most of what he said. Yes, I think in the short term we are in for some pain. I hope MD won't pull this same kind of shit (at least Frosh will be gone by the new session), or certainly not to the same extreme. But I also expect the courts and especially SCOTUS are not going to put up with a lot of this. He has a point about Alabama. But that was also prior courts before this decision that decided the off limits on private property part. I would HOPE that someone filing suit on that specific portion would make a 1A argument that it was FORCING a private property owner into speech to allow a constitutionally protected activity on their property. I am not aware of any other constitutionally protected right where a private property owner must expressly communicate to people that they can do it. Can they ban it, of course the private property owner can. But they have to take the affirmative step to ban it. Don't want someone wearing a "Weed is king" shirt on your property or in your store, you have to tell them not to. Don't want them praying to Mecca because they get caught out at that time of day, you have to TELL them not to. Constitutionally protected rights should be ASSUMED to be okay if the person is otherwise allowed on the private property unless the private property owner or their agents expressly post that said activity is not allowed or verbally communicate to the person it is not.

    Do I think a political march for a redress of grievances should go protesting on a strip malls parking lot on the way to city hall? Of course, not. But the mall's owners should also have to post some signs or have someone empowered to tell the protesters (it could even be empowering the police to ask them to leave) to detour around their property as they don't want the protestors cutting through with their signs and coordinated chants.

    Anyway, of all of the provisions, the private property one might be the one most likely to fly out of just about everything suggested. I still suspect SCOTUS won't see it that way (nor should they). IMHO, if the general public is allowed there, then the general public should be allowed to carry a firearm (at least concealed) if they so wish unless the private property owner tells them no. I can ALMOST see a case where private property where the general public that is not generally open to the public can default to no.

    Most of the other stuff? Nope. Nope. Nopeity nope. They can probably get away with the training and renewal requirements. Possibly/probably the storage requirements. I think that is going to be about it. The references, the social media accounts, everyone living in your household, ammunition background checks for the gun registered to you, etc. I think are going to fall flat like a wet fart in church. And I think the vast majority of the public places listed as being sensitve places will also fail. That is the most absurd part of it. Thomas was very clear in his examples. Times Square and Parks are the furthest thing from the examples given as possible. And the public transit is almost certainly going to fail as well. Government buildings, polling places and schools are likely to be upheld.

    But I guess NY really just wanted SCOTUS to hand them a detailed list of the sensitive places guns can be banned. I suspect this is going to be a SHORT list.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,768
    Everything she knows about firearms comes from reading the Everytown glossy brochures that come in the same envelopes as the Bloombux donated to her campaign.
    She didn't bother reading the enclosed brochure. It got lost in the brief case under all of the $100 bills.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,768
    I think Thomas, knowing history as well as he does, is pissed about the historical deprivation of rights to blacks in particular. The 2A is one of the more egregious examples of a right blacks were routinely deprived of. I’m not sure it’s necessarily only the race aspect, but the idea that the government will try to deprive any group of people they deem second class citizens of an enumerated right. The republic only functions well, and the government stays in check, when all citizens can exercise their rights freely and as intended.

    That’s my take.
    I think he cares about the racial aspect of denied rights. I am also positive that is the only group of people he cares about rights being deprived to. His previous rulings on many things and his opinion on Dobbs makes it pretty clear he'd really like to roll back most precedents on protecting women and gays.

    He called out all of those cases as wrongly decided...but didn't bother mentioning Loving, which was decided on the same basis as the later cases.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    52,964
    Bel Air
    Based on my understanding, the lower court will have to make some changes. It is unclear exactly how many changes. Bruen technically does not address AWBs directly.
    It needs to comply with the 1-step test, and THT. Tougher than strict scrutiny.

    It can’t survive.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,768
    I think they understand but just don't care. If the courts throw the law out, they just go back to the drawing board and come up with a new set of infringements. It takes years for courts to act, so the rinse and repeat cycle for practical purposes will go on forever.
    It doesn't have to. Courts can issue injunctions on an emergency basis within days. And I think with how NY is showing they are willing to F around, injunctions are going to start coming on more extreme gun control bills and ones that are pretty obviously (or even most likely) ignoring SCOTUS decisions and instructions to the lower courts.

    If not from the lower courts, than the higher courts or SCOTUS. I dislike the shadow docket, but when it comes down to it, they HAVE that power and if states are obviously and willfully ignoring the letter, which they are in this new NY slate of laws, as well as the spirit (they've exorcised that spirit for sure!), expect SCOTUS to hand down quick injunctions. All you need for them to do that is the district court and appeals court to deny an injunction, and there is no reason it should take more than a few weeks at each level to decide on preliminary injunctions.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    46,444
    SoMD / West PA
    I suspect Frosh is watching NY VERY closely before deciding whether to put his fanny on the line in a similar manner. He never was a risk taker (i.e., he's an abject coward and bully).
    Frosh doesn't have the time.

    His battle is here and now with Whalen (state) and Call (federal). Not to mention Bianchi being GVR'd by the SCOTUS.
     

    Bob A

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    25,239
    Anyone here who doesn't remember Antonin Scalia?

    Anyone here remember the assassination attempt on Kavanaugh?

    Anyone here think that the Globalist Progressives are not and will not agitate the masses to encourage assassination of Conservative SCOTUS justices? Kill two and it's game over for the nation.

    We still have two years of The Drooler and his Ho, we still have the same mechanisms available to invalidate a fair election, and we have a scant four months to go before the midterm elections.

    These people have killed to keep their positions, and they are supported by intelligence assets who are fully in favor of continuing on the current path. They play for all the marbles in a game without rules.

    Just because I seem paranoid doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'd like to be, but I really think these folks will stop at nothing. I've seen nothing that would change my mind about their zeal, their sociopathy, their cunning and their absolute commitment to keeping and increasing their power.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,768
    I really don't see them doing a special session for the gun laws, although I do believe that is what the delay is. Frosh is trying to get enough support for one, but I don't believe it is there. There are still enough Democrats that have some amount of common sense to understand what the ramifications will be if they over step on any new restrictions. One of those, and the most powerful in the discussion and the process is the Chair of the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee (Senator "Fresh Prince" Smith).
    While he is a Democrat, he does listen, somewhat and like his predecessor, he does understand the legal and Constitutional ramifications of the Legislatures actions.
    Not just that, but in Maryland they cannot campaign during session. It's an election year and getting close to the election. Unless they pre-write all of the bills...and that'll take a bit of time too, even if Bloomberg hands them the text.

    I honestly don't know enough about Maryland's special session operating procedures and MD law/constitution. But wouldn't MD still need to hold public hearings in committee even if it is single issue session? Or does it being a special session side step those requirements for the bill to be introduced in committee, debated and voted out?

    At any rate, even has shady as MGA is, I think it would be a miracle for a special session on such a controversial set of bills/bill this would end up being that it didn't bog down for at least days. Maybe not weeks, but I cannot imagine MGA wants to stop that campaign trail and trying to raise campaign funds for what could be a week or weeks.
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    5,701
    Anne Arundel County
    It needs to comply with the 1-step test, and THT. Tougher than strict scrutiny.

    It can’t survive.
    Of course, if you are intent at reaching a specific, pre-determined end state from the start, no matter what vehicle is available, you'll probably find a way to get there even if the route is incredibly tortuous. See the District Court decision in Kolbe for a shining example of logic and reality twisted into a pretzel.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    52,964
    Bel Air
    Of course, if you are intent at reaching a specific, pre-determined end state from the start, no matter what vehicle is available, you'll probably find a way to get there even if the route is incredibly tortuous. See the District Court decision in Kolbe for a shining example of logic and reality twisted into a pretzel.
    Oh I read that abomination.
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    5,701
    Anne Arundel County
    I honestly don't know enough about Maryland's special session operating procedures and MD law/constitution. But wouldn't MD still need to hold public hearings in committee even if it is single issue session? Or does it being a special session side step those requirements for the bill to be introduced in committee, debated and voted out?
    Any hearings could be trivial and with no public participation, leading directly to a vote. IIRC there's nothing in the law stopping a committee from passing a bill the same day it goes to the committee with zero public input.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,768
    Anyone here who doesn't remember Antonin Scalia?

    Anyone here remember the assassination attempt on Kavanaugh?

    Anyone here think that the Globalist Progressives are not and will not agitate the masses to encourage assassination of Conservative SCOTUS justices? Kill two and it's game over for the nation.

    We still have two years of The Drooler and his Ho, we still have the same mechanisms available to invalidate a fair election, and we have a scant four months to go before the midterm elections.

    These people have killed to keep their positions, and they are supported by intelligence assets who are fully in favor of continuing on the current path. They play for all the marbles in a game without rules.

    Just because I seem paranoid doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'd like to be, but I really think these folks will stop at nothing. I've seen nothing that would change my mind about their zeal, their sociopathy, their cunning and their absolute commitment to keeping and increasing their power.
    As much as the law needs to come down on the guy in the Kavanaugh case like a ton of bricks, that was more like a cry for help. He himself called the police. It would be one thing if the guy got caught trying to assassinate Kavanaugh. I have a hard time calling it an attempted assassination when he turned himself in.
     
    Oct 29, 2021
    740
    Dallas, texas
    On an ancillary note: They are resurrecting the civil rights battles of the 1960s again. The reason then is the reason now: To divide the country, this time along racial lines again and retain power by courting the "minority communities". I foresee this as the main battle supported by the relatively new "Lawfare" weapon, with the 2A civil rights and parents' rights taking a secondary role.

    They are once again fighting a loosing battle.

    Since 2020 and the Covid pandemic. The highest Percentage of first time gun buyers, as well as the highest percentage of those getting firearm training were in fact minorities. They out numbered whites 3:1

    The minorities now are the ones standing up for our fight now as well

    Joy on the view was quoted as saying “When more blacks start having more guns then whites, we will see more stand Up for banning guns”
     
    Oct 29, 2021
    740
    Dallas, texas
    Honestly I think it is a convergence of two things.

    I think, unless they actually are idiots and I don't think many of them are, they expect some/most/all of what they are doing is going too get struck down and struck down hard.

    But it is a VOTING tactic. LOOK WE ARE TRYING TO PROTECT YOU FROM SCARY GUNS AND THE CONSERVATIVES ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU!!!! Drive the voters to the polls come November. Drive the donations now. It's a bill about getting votes and donations.

    The other is, I honestly think they expect courts to go along, or at least go along enough that they won't do things like slap immediate injunctions on the new law prior to review. As sweeping and as extreme as NY's new law is, I would absolutely slap an injunction until it could be decided in court (now, don't get me wrong, I am not judge. But I HAVE once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express).

    So I think its those two driving it. If they really expected the courts to immediately slap a pause on it (or within weeks, someone still has to file suit and request an injunction which will take some time), I am not sure they would have gone quite as extreme. Maybe still, after all, voters.

    On Volhka, I disagree with most of what he said. Yes, I think in the short term we are in for some pain. I hope MD won't pull this same kind of shit (at least Frosh will be gone by the new session), or certainly not to the same extreme. But I also expect the courts and especially SCOTUS are not going to put up with a lot of this. He has a point about Alabama. But that was also prior courts before this decision that decided the off limits on private property part. I would HOPE that someone filing suit on that specific portion would make a 1A argument that it was FORCING a private property owner into speech to allow a constitutionally protected activity on their property. I am not aware of any other constitutionally protected right where a private property owner must expressly communicate to people that they can do it. Can they ban it, of course the private property owner can. But they have to take the affirmative step to ban it. Don't want someone wearing a "Weed is king" shirt on your property or in your store, you have to tell them not to. Don't want them praying to Mecca because they get caught out at that time of day, you have to TELL them not to. Constitutionally protected rights should be ASSUMED to be okay if the person is otherwise allowed on the private property unless the private property owner or their agents expressly post that said activity is not allowed or verbally communicate to the person it is not.

    Do I think a political march for a redress of grievances should go protesting on a strip malls parking lot on the way to city hall? Of course, not. But the mall's owners should also have to post some signs or have someone empowered to tell the protesters (it could even be empowering the police to ask them to leave) to detour around their property as they don't want the protestors cutting through with their signs and coordinated chants.

    Anyway, of all of the provisions, the private property one might be the one most likely to fly out of just about everything suggested. I still suspect SCOTUS won't see it that way (nor should they). IMHO, if the general public is allowed there, then the general public should be allowed to carry a firearm (at least concealed) if they so wish unless the private property owner tells them no. I can ALMOST see a case where private property where the general public that is not generally open to the public can default to no.

    Most of the other stuff? Nope. Nope. Nopeity nope. They can probably get away with the training and renewal requirements. Possibly/probably the storage requirements. I think that is going to be about it. The references, the social media accounts, everyone living in your household, ammunition background checks for the gun registered to you, etc. I think are going to fall flat like a wet fart in church. And I think the vast majority of the public places listed as being sensitve places will also fail. That is the most absurd part of it. Thomas was very clear in his examples. Times Square and Parks are the furthest thing from the examples given as possible. And the public transit is almost certainly going to fail as well. Government buildings, polling places and schools are likely to be upheld.

    But I guess NY really just wanted SCOTUS to hand them a detailed list of the sensitive places guns can be banned. I suspect this is going to be a SHORT list.

    Time I get a shit load of “guns are allowed here” and then go around town and start sticking them on every single door I come across when not looking!

    Oh the kind of stickers that are waterproof, and almost close to impossible to remove.

    Wear gloves for no fingerprints. Keep the face covered in case of cameras.. get a huge group of us…

    off we go…. Sticky here sticky there… sticky it up assses lol
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    52,964
    Bel Air
    They are once again fighting a loosing battle.

    Since 2020 and the Covid pandemic. The highest Percentage of first time gun buyers, as well as the highest percentage of those getting firearm training were in fact minorities. They out numbered whites 3:1

    The minorities now are the ones standing up for our fight now as well

    Joy on the view was quoted as saying “When more blacks start having more guns then whites, we will see more stand Up for banning guns”
    I’ve been pleased to see more people who are Americans expand the scope of rights they see as theirs to exercise regardless of race sexual orientation, or gender (there are 2).
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,768
    Anyone here who doesn't remember Antonin Scalia?

    Anyone here remember the assassination attempt on Kavanaugh?

    Anyone here think that the Globalist Progressives are not and will not agitate the masses to encourage assassination of Conservative SCOTUS justices? Kill two and it's game over for the nation.

    We still have two years of The Drooler and his Ho, we still have the same mechanisms available to invalidate a fair election, and we have a scant four months to go before the midterm elections.

    These people have killed to keep their positions, and they are supported by intelligence assets who are fully in favor of continuing on the current path. They play for all the marbles in a game without rules.

    Just because I seem paranoid doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'd like to be, but I really think these folks will stop at nothing. I've seen nothing that would change my mind about their zeal, their sociopathy, their cunning and their absolute commitment to keeping and increasing their power.
    Dems aren't willing to go remotely as far as the GOP is in their tactics. For example, the GOP has been more than happy to shut down the government and stop the Senate from working to get what they want. The Dems so far haven't. They've...been willing to get rid of the filibuster for non-SCOTUS nominations and that is it.
     

    RoadDawg

    Nos nostraque Deo
    Dec 6, 2010
    89,096
    While Washington may have said that at the time, all men where not viewed as equal, nor treated so, and would not be equal until at least 1863, when blacks and other minorities were determined, by the addition of a Constitutional Amendment, to be equal.
    The accepted (and now known to be incorrect) anthropological science of the day, when it was written, matters not today. The words apply equally now to “all men”.
     

    Fedora

    Member
    Dec 16, 2018
    115
    Government buildings, polling places and schools are likely to be upheld.
    When I think of all the school shootings that have happened on our watch, It is ludricrous to me why schools should continue to be "gun-free".

    What did that fellow say? Something about "a good man with a gun?"
     

    rbird7282

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    15,644
    Columbia
    Good job NYSRPA :rolleye12 Gun owners/valid permit holders are worse off as of today than before Bruen.

    The law is summarized in detail below within the quote.

    You can’t be serious. You know that New York’s new laws will get smacked down in a hurry, right?
    F New York, Maryland, Hawaii, and any other state that did this crap for decades. F them all, they brought this sh*t storm on themselves. Reap it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    264,916
    Messages
    6,818,970
    Members
    31,264
    Latest member
    737ck

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom