No manual safety

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  • joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,461
    MD
    Well there is at least one good thing about this thread

    No One has said to carry the pistol in Condition 3 or worse used the term “Israeli Carry”.
    Can I Mexican Carry in Israeli Carry?
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,461
    MD
    That would be a Level IV Cultural Appropriation violation. Back to the FEMA camp for you.
    Ah ha! Don't you assume my national background! I identify as Mexiraeli!

    (It doesn't explain the kilt, don't ask.)
     

    tdt91

    I will miss you my friend
    Apr 24, 2009
    10,810
    Abingdon
    For what it's worth, we had a guy in our last steel match shooting a P365 with a manual safety, and it was engaging itself just about every other or second other round. At first, we all naturally assumed his thumb was bumping it, so he made a deliberate attempt to ride it down. That wasn't very feasible because the lever is so small, and it didn't make a difference. Then, he lowered his grip...a lot, and it kept happening.

    In hindsight, I wish we had videoed him and tried to catch a shot with the super slow-mo these newfangled phones have and also gotten someone else to shoot it. But, he was gripping it so low, and there were so many eyes watching intently, I'm confident it wasn't his thumb doing it. He said he was going to send it back to SIG. Hopefully he'll have an answer by the next match.

    Anybody else have similar experiences? I know that was only one example, but it made me glad my P365 never had a manual safety...and I don't think any of my next ones will.
    I have a Davis 380 with only a couple hundred rounds through it and it does the same thing. The safety engages itself after firing a couple shots. Have to hold it in place when shooting.
    Anyone want to buy this POS? LOL
     

    Huckleberry

    No One of Consequence
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    23,313
    Severn & Lewes

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    scottyfz6

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2018
    1,343
    What 'little bar'?

    The average OEM seems to be between 4.5 and 5.5 pounds. It's a two stage, with some light take-up, then it meets some resistance and fires with a little additional pressure.

    Yes.

    I don't want a safety either, and proved that to myself yet again. I'm used to DA/SA revolvers and DA/SA semi-autos.
    You should try a p99as, it has a long take up if in single action, a long heavier take if in double action. But the reset is very short for rapid fire.
     

    Crosseye Dominant

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,013
    You should try a p99as, it has a long take up if in single action, a long heavier take if in double action. But the reset is very short for rapid fire.
    Canik TP9DA is the current version of that striker DA/SA concept. Same proportions as a 19X. You actually have two different options for a longer first pull...either a full DA stroke or you can cock the striker with a half rack but release the trigger fully forward. Only downside of the gun is you can't put an optic because the decocker is on the top/left side.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,691
    What 'little bar'?

    The average OEM seems to be between 4.5 and 5.5 pounds. It's a two stage, with some light take-up, then it meets some resistance and fires with a little additional pressure.

    Yes.

    I don't want a safety either, and proved that to myself yet again. I'm used to DA/SA revolvers and DA/SA semi-autos.
    Per Spaceballs:
    It must be pressed in to allow the striker to fire. The only thing that can press it in is a little bar attached to the trigger. If the trigger isn't pulled the gun cannot fire.

    Thanks for the info, Ed. I agree about safeties, though I do own a couple Hi Powers and a 1911. Not a fan of cocked and locked, though it's probably some sort of character defect on my part.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    You should try a p99as, it has a long take up if in single action, a long heavier take if in double action. But the reset is very short for rapid fire.

    Here's mine. It points extremely naturally, is extremely reliable, has a cold hammer forged barrel that's tough AF, can shoot under an inch at 25 yds, and the reset is very short on the trigger... although there is some creep and a very plastic on plastic feel to it. I love the lever mag release and think all guns should have it. It is the best mag release, especially in terms of being ambidextrous. You keep your grip and simply drop your trigger finger down to drop the mag. The slide catch/slide release is usable as a slide release by your thumb without needing to shift your grip, which also helps speed up reloads. It has a striker indicator out the back that let's you see and feel if it is cooked in single-action mode. It also has a loaded chamber indicator on the extractor. The thing has all the features and is way ahead if it's time.

    When the striker is back, it actually sits on a second sear that drops away when you press the trigger like kicking the legs out of a chair. In double action mode(when you decock it using the button on the top), there is a double action sear that grabs the striker, drags it back, then pulls down out of the way. The striker itself has two faces on the striker tab at slightly different angles that interface with these two sears. The decocker effectively drops the single action sear, but without moving the striker block, allowing the striker to come forward and be stopped by that block.

    I don't like that the bore axis is somewhat high, making it flippier than something like a m&p, although still soft recoiling. I also don't like that the rounded front of the trigger guard and glock cuts means you're stuck with lights made for g26 sized guns.

    Here's me shooting steel at an old mdshooters frostbite shoot with it at 25 yds.... damn, 12 years ago. Notice how easy it is to just drop shot after shot on target.
     
    Last edited:

    E.Shell

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 5, 2007
    10,245
    Mid-Merlind
    Per Spaceballs:
    It must be pressed in to allow the striker to fire. The only thing that can press it in is a little bar attached to the trigger. If the trigger isn't pulled the gun cannot fire.
    Oh, gotcha...

    The bottom end of safety lever (item #29 on the parts map below) is rocked forward when the trigger is pressed. As the bottom rocks forward, the top pivots up into the slide to press the striker safety (item #8 on the 'upper half' drawing at the link below) upward.

    The striker safety has a half-moon cut in it to allow the round striker to pass, but when the safety lever is not pressing it upward, the half-moon notch doesn't align and the striker cannot reach the primer.

    This means the striker cannot fall unless the trigger is rearward, trigger bar rocking the bottom safety lever, top of the safety lever pressing the striker safety upward and clearing the way for the striker to reach the primer.

    https://www.sigsauer.com/sig-sauer-small-parts-shoppers/p365-parts-picker/

    365PartsMap.jpg
     

    emerald

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 25, 2015
    1,174
    So, how different really is the risk with a series 80 1911 compared to some of these striker fired guns? I know the recommendation is cocked and locked, but is the risk of it going off unintentionally in condition 0 really any greater that no safety on a striker fired gun? It would seem the trigger has to move for either one to fire.
     

    hdatontodo

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2012
    4,073
    So. Central Balto Co
    So, how different really is the risk with a series 80 1911 compared to some of these striker fired guns? I know the recommendation is cocked and locked, but is the risk of it going off unintentionally in condition 0 really any greater that no safety on a striker fired gun? It would seem the trigger has to move for either one to fire.
    A cocked and locked 1911 needs the safety switched off, the grip safety grabbed, and the trigger pulled to fire.


    Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
     

    Spaceballs

    Active Member
    Sep 7, 2022
    261
    Pennsylvania
    .

    This means the striker cannot fall unless the trigger is rearward, trigger bar rocking the bottom safety lever, top of the safety lever pressing the striker safety upward and clearing the way for the striker to reach the primer.
    And just for posterity....

    The striker safety block inside the slide is spring loaded so it's default position is "NO FIRE"

    So even if EVERYTHING else on the gun breaks except the extremely reliable little spring pushing the striker blocker down and out of alignment, the gun will not fire because the striker cannot extend forward to make contact with the primer.

    The trigger can break, the striker release can break, magical demons can use the gun itself, but if nothing moves the striker block into the firing position, the striker cannot move forward.

    Caveat: The striker block does have to be installed. If you drop it and reassemble the gun without the blocker int here Icm pretty sure it will fire. But the blocker is much less effective if it is lost in your carpet and not in the gun.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    So, how different really is the risk with a series 80 1911 compared to some of these striker fired guns? I know the recommendation is cocked and locked, but is the risk of it going off unintentionally in condition 0 really any greater that no safety on a striker fired gun? It would seem the trigger has to move for either one to fire.

    *IF* I'm following your gist here , I would have to say 1911 ( stock OEM) . Long , fairly heavy trigger pull on striker vs short travel on 1911 . Yeah , the grip safety , but most modern 1911 have a light grip safety , designed to be easy to disengage.

    If you had aftermarket light trigger on striker gun , and an actual GI spec 1911A1, they could overlap.
     

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