Nightvision AR

[Jaybeez]

It is an extremely expensive game. My wife wanted to kill me when i bought my first mono... until she looked through it. Then she apologized. ymmv.

For the other users in this thread, i was able to get alot of accessories at the Military vehicle rally at ripken stadium. Rifle mounts, j-arms, helmets, neck/nape straps, ir beacons, sidewinder lights, helmet straps, M952V, pretty much everything you would need for a complete helmet setup for not alot of money. Most of the prices started a little high but everyone was open to negotiation.

Headmount with laser is the way to go. With a headmount you can hike/walk/stalk, tie your shoes, look at a map, look through your backpack, use multiple weapons equipped with lasers, change a tire, even drive with binos. With a little practice it feels very natural, and it really is like having a superpower. My backup guns have weaker red lasers on them now just in case.

With a dedicated rifle scope you are usually going to have some magnification (4x-6x) which makes it extremely difficult to observe anything up close or even nearby. I couldnt imagine trying to walk a rocky trail while holding as rifle to my face, and not being able to focus on where i was putting my feet.


EDIT to add:
There is such a thing as an adapter to mount a pvs14 to the back of, or behind, a normal rifle scope. You will lose some light transmission, but from what i have seen online they work as advertised.
http://www.nightoptics.com/no/product/NA-DN2.htm?Store_code=no&Screen=NA-DN2

 

[armed ferret]

OP, carefully consider why you think you need/want NV for a toy before jumping in. NV stuff worth buying (at least Gen2, preferably Gen3) is not for slim wallets. For $80-$130, you can get one hell of a tactical flashlight that's so bright it doubles as somewhat of a SD weapon.

...and scares away any game you may be trying to hunt, such as hogs and coyotes.

instantly.

 

[armed ferret]

even drive with binos.

Binos aren't necessary. We drive with monos and can spot IED's no problem.

 

[Jaybeez]

http://ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=7&f=163&t=1046954

this pvs-4 has been been for sale on arf for a while, might be an ok deal. looks like its got some chicken wire in the image.

 

[Slimjim]

http://ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=7&f=163&t=1046954

this pvs-4 has been been for sale on arf for a while, might be an ok deal. looks like its got some chicken wire in the image.

It happens when looking at a bright light source and is normal, you're seeing the micro channel plate, IIRC.

 

[DarthZed]

If you guys don't stop responding, and bumping this thread; I'm gonna end up buying something I REALLY can't afford right now.

 

[Jaybeez]

If you guys don't stop responding, and bumping this thread; I'm gonna end up buying something I REALLY can't afford right now.

there is literally so little discussion about night vision online that I'm purposely trying to keep this thread alive so that I have the opportunity to talk about it.

page 2 of this thread:
http://ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=380504
has my review of a Chinese ir laser, along with some tear down pics. I need to recoil test it for durability, but I'm holding out to find a place to shoot with it at night.

 

[ridethemessiah]

If you guys don't stop responding, and bumping this thread; I'm gonna end up buying something I REALLY can't afford right now.

i know right. jay is right though, hardly anybody talks about it. I mean people have hotrod .22 target guns. rifles that shoot 1000m plus, but hardly any nightvision talk. i'm really thinking (budget willing) that a hekmet/head mounted style is more universal (as jay said) and a better choice for me personally. then i'll pm slim for some accessories, yeah baby.

 

[Jaybeez]

i know right. jay is right though, hardly anybody talks about it. I mean people have hotrod .22 target guns. rifles that shoot 1000m plus, but hardly any nightvision talk. i'm really thinking (budget willing) that a hekmet/head mounted style is more universal (as jay said) and a better choice for me personally. then i'll pm slim for some accessories, yeah baby.

well, if that's the route you are leaning towards, let's gets into some monocular talk.

it took me about 5 years to pony up for nightvision, and in that time a lot of things have changed. at one time gen2 d300's were a good value, then gen3 in foreign bodies like the gt-14 and the mum were the hot ticket. so in your research you'll run across reviews of those devices, and recommendations on them. but nowadays, due to the weaker us dollar(imported gen 2+ costs almost as much as domestic gen 3), and the quantities of real pvs-14s that have been produced, the 14's are your best bet. parts will be available for the pvs-14 for the next decade at least. heck, even parts for 1980s milspec stuff can still be found.

but the pvs-14 has been widely available commercially for over 10-13 years, and the performance of the tubes inside have improved dramatically. many early commercial pvs-14's were "6015" models (no variable gain) and all used dual batteries. now they are single battery, but older ones can be converted from dual to single. the performance of tubes being produced is dependant on what the government requires from the manufactures each year and in each contract in their omnibus spending bill. often just referred to as Omni plus a Roman numeral. omni 3 tubes are very early, maybe 15 years old or more, and while they outperform older gen 2, their resolution isn't much better than todays gen2+ systems, even though other specs might be better. omni 4 and 5 were big steps in quality and are worth having at the right price and condition. last year omni 7 was the best, but I think omni 8 is the best current technology widely available to civilians today, and would be considered top shelf.

many current tubes are filmless, and some people try to call these gen 4 mistakenly. they basically reduce the distance between some internal components to reduce halo at the cost of durability. filmless tubes are extremely recoil sensitive, layers inside can flex and impact one another, and as far as I know shouldn't be used on any weapon.

I think the itt night enforcer is the only 100% factory produced model(NE-PVS-14), while everything else on the current market is assembled from parts, with the builders ranging from amateur to professional. several of the better "builders" with well known companies were former employees of the big names like Itt, while other builders are as shadier than used car salesmen, no offence to used car salesmen.

if buying new you want the best warranty you can get. usually if you get through the first couple hours you won't have any problems, but if you do have issues, you want that warranty repair/replacement right away.

if buying used, you want an inspection period and the option to return for a refund. no exceptions, even for a huge discount.

now spots and zones, grades like a or b or c (sometimes called golden or silver bullet) are another story. the manufacture of tubes is pretty difficult, and as a result imperfections like spots are very common. depending on their size and what zone of the image they are located in will determine if the tube passes or fails for military use. many tubes that fail milspec which allows some spots, get sold to the seconday commercial market. this is the source of many discount devices. a search of some of the builder's autions on eBay will turn up some truely nasty crap. But the tube manufacturers also sell almost perfect/perfect tubes on the commercial market, and these usually command a premium price. in my opinion minor spots to the side aren't a big deal at all, but ymmv.

 

[Jaybeez]

personally I own a micro. its a commercial body that uses mostly pvs-14 parts and a commercial objective lens. its lighter and slimmer than a 14 but a little more front heavy, and its compatable with most 14 accessories. it doesn't have adjustable gain, but it does have an adjustable aperature in the lens that acts a lot like a manual gain. it also lacks the internal leds that indicate ir on and low battery that the 14 has. the guy that makes the micro, ab nightvision, makes them exclusively for nvdepot, but he also makes a lot of other devices for other manufacturers too, like the pitbull monos and the bnvd.

I chose this device because I was able to get a commercial handheld only mono with a good compatable tube for a screaming price, and building my own mono seemed like a no brainer. But it literally took me 6 months of searching to get that deal.

two of them together make a pretty light weight, compact and cost effective bino system, which in my opinion is amazing.

 

[DarthZed]

So what would you recommend for an economy NV unit, Jaybeez? Something in the $1400 range? I'd like to get into the area, but don't have a lot of money. I'm just wondering if perhaps I should wait a bit for more modern (and capable) units to come down in price. Gen 1 units are junk basically (from what I've seen). Early Gen 2 are not much better without lots of supplemental illumination. And even some Gen 2+ units look pretty iffy. Many Gen 3's seem to actually deliver on what you would expect from a NV device with much better clarity and light amp; but they seem to cost $3500+.

 

[Jaybeez]

So what would you recommend for an economy NV unit, Jaybeez? Something in the $1400 range? I'd like to get into the area, but don't have a lot of money. I'm just wondering if perhaps I should wait a bit for more modern (and capable) units to come down in price. Gen 1 units are junk basically (from what I've seen). Early Gen 2 are not much better without lots of supplemental illumination. And even some Gen 2+ units look pretty iffy. Many Gen 3's seem to actually deliver on what you would expect from a NV device with much better clarity and light amp; but they seem to cost $3500+.

This is an early gen 3 commercial unit:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ITT-NIGHT-VISION-MONOCULAR-/261118047147?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccbd933ab

You can use it handheld as is, but you wont be head mounting or weapon mounting it. This one is nice because you could pull the tube and throw it in any number of housings, mum/gt/micro/pvs-14/nvm2aa for between $550-$1100 for the new housing. It wont have manual gain though. Its most likely omni 3 or 4 was would have been originally sold between 2000-2006. However the $1500 dollar asking price is too much, id be comfortable at about $1000, with an inspection period and return policy, and some dang screenshots of the image. I got one for $500 shipped with 2 lenses. I plan to resell the old commercial housing to recoup a few dollars.

There are other commercial units out there that have tubes that cannot be placed in a milspec mono, and some that can. Ebay is sketchy though because there are alot of things that are possibly stolen, especially when it comes to lasers and milspec an/pvs units. Stolen stuff will get tracked down, and it will get reposessed, and buyers will lose their money.

$2500 will get you a new pvs-14 built by TNVC with a brand new tube. Thats the best option and best price for quality and brand new. With the exception of the dvor/opticsplant/opmod units for about $200 more, nothing in that price range even comes close to the quality and warranty and reputation. That price range used to be where you would find used spotty tubes assembled in some dudes basement.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_209/224219_TNVC_Unveils_the_TNV_PVS_14_line.html


As far as prices coming down, they are pretty good right now, considering inflation and the cost of gen 2 stuff versus gen 3.

 

[Jaybeez]

The best place to hunt for deals would be ar15.com's used optics equipment exchange. With prices being $2500 for a new tnvc unit, used prices are going to go down a little, Typically sellers were asking 1800-2000 for a used pvs-14, so you should be able to offer in the $1500 range and eventually pick one up. The sellers there know the drill and post screen shots and pictures and usually offer returns and inspections. Find a seller with good feedback and you should be good to go. The mods there are really on top of the game and dont let questionably stolen stuff get listed.

 

[armed ferret]

This thread is boring. No pictures.

PVS-15B on my ACH. There's a few 14's in the connex too, but two of 'em won't turn on and the third is unbelievably loud. The whine is extremely audible. So I went 15B instead.

We're supposed to have PEQ-16's coming in, and we have a box chock full of Izlid 200P's. May snag one just for shits 'n' grins.

 

[Jaybeez]

This thread is boring. No pictures.

PVS-15B on my ACH. There's a few 14's in the connex too, but two of 'em won't turn on and the third is unbelievably loud. The whine is extremely audible. So I went 15B instead.

We're supposed to have PEQ-16's coming in, and we have a box chock full of Izlid 200P's. May snag one just for shits 'n' grins.

I came over here to look after i saw your pic on the other site. I must say that looks like a nice setup, although those 15's look fragile. IIRC, you used to live just down the way from me in harford county, maybe we can point lasers at things when you get back.

 

[armed ferret]

AACo, actually. Dena/GB area.

 

[04RWon]

Ive got NV if anyone wants to point IR lasers at stuff???

 

[DarthZed]

OK, I'm not gonna look at this thread anymore....seriously now...I mean it. I can't afford to buy a NV unit till next year. lol Thanks for the input Jaybeez, I'm definitely gonna go the TNVC route considering the price/quality of the used units.

 

[Jaybeez]

OK, I'm not gonna look at this thread anymore....seriously now...I mean it. I can't afford to buy a NV unit till next year. lol Thanks for the input Jaybeez, I'm definitely gonna go the TNVC route considering the price/quality of the used units.

two things to keep in mind:

tnvc usually has something nice on sale at Christmas.

tnvc usually has something nice on sale at tax time.