New Rimfire Cartridge 21 Sharp

[Mini14tac]

Just watching American Rifleman TV and apparently Winchester just introduced a new rimfire cartridge. The 21 Sharp. Looks interesting, not sure what for but should be interesting to see what folks think.

Please Welcome the 21 Sharp | Winchester Ammunition

winchester.com

 

[easy]

Article says chamber will be the same as .22LR but barrel would be different. I'm curious as to how.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Article says chamber will be the same as .22LR but barrel would be different. I'm curious as to how.

Smaller bore diameter.

 

[smokey]

Article says chamber will be the same as .22LR but barrel would be different. I'm curious as to how.

The barrel's bore will be .210. This makes ammo production easier, since they can simply just toss these bullets into existing .22lr cases.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Article says chamber will be the same as .22LR but barrel would be different. I'm curious as to how.

Smaller bore size .

 

[Biggfoot44]

The barrel's bore will be .210. This makes ammo production easier, since they can simply just toss these bullets into existing .22lr cases.

What would be the benefit from the user's perspective ?

It might seem an easy thing from Ammo mfg perspective , but would be a pain for the Rifle mfg .

A more sensable approach ( if you felt the need at all ) would be using a .22WMR basic case , and shorten to .22 LR length , loaded to .LR pressures , using bullet diameter compatible with standard .22 LR bore specs .

 

[toppkatt]

Because most of the recent rimfire cartridges have done so well (5mm, .17 Mach 2, .17 HMR). Of these three only .17HMR seems to be 'readily' available and used much.
At least it's not a bottleneck cartridge where neck cracking can be a problem and it seems to be based on the standard .22lr case. Also, how well will it work in semi-autos? I recall the .17Mach 2 would not work well in the 10-22. A few got it to 'work' with numerous modifications but it was never reliable for long term use. What is the pressure curve.
At this point consumers are, hopefully, more cautious about following the hype based on the past few designs.

 

[HiStandards]

Article says chamber will be the same as .22LR but barrel would be different. I'm curious as to how.

.22LR uses heeled bullet.

 

[DutchV]

I wonder how one of these rifles will react if somebody shoots a .22 LR through it? You know it's gonna happen. I don't expect a kaboom, but will the bullet exit the barrel, or get stuck partway?

 

[lazarus]

I wonder how one of these rifles will react if somebody shoots a .22 LR through it? You know it's gonna happen. I don't expect a kaboom, but will the bullet exit the barrel, or get stuck partway?

Likely would exit. Most 22lr is fairly soft lead and it wouldn't need to swag down much.

 

[lazarus]

Because most of the recent rimfire cartridges have done so well (5mm, .17 Mach 2, .17 HMR). Of these three only .17HMR seems to be 'readily' available and used much.
At least it's not a bottleneck cartridge where neck cracking can be a problem and it seems to be based on the standard .22lr case. Also, how well will it work in semi-autos? I recall the .17Mach 2 would not work well in the 10-22. A few got it to 'work' with numerous modifications but it was never reliable for long term use. What is the pressure curve.
At this point consumers are, hopefully, more cautious about following the hype based on the past few designs.

Oh I am too. Which means more likely than not, it'll never catch on.

That said, I am very interested. I doubt I'd ever get much into it, but if they can tack on a little more pressure, doesn't need to be much, that could be really cool. Of course, there are already hypervelocity 32gr 22lr running 1600fps and 40gr loads at 1400fps. But if this 21 cal can push 1400-1500fps from standard 34gr bullets and can run 50gr subs at 1050fps and maybe some 27gr bullets out at 1800-2000fps, then sign me up.

A standard twist rate that can stabilize subsonic 50gr bullets would be awesome.

Now time to actually read the article.

I ain't ditching my 22lr ever, but if using 22lr cases means prices can be closer to 22lr prices and add some performance, sold.

 

[Mini14tac]

From the article below.

“For the mechanically curious among us, the .22 LR’s bullet diameter is .2255 inch, compared to the 21 Sharp’s bullet diameter of .2105. Both cartridges are spec’d to the same maximum average pressure of 24,000 psi.”

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Review: Winchester 21 Sharp

Designed by Winchester to provide top performance with lead-free projectiles, the new 21 Sharp rimfire cartridge utilizes a .22 LR case but a .21-caliber, non-heeled projectile that offers several key advantages over the standard .22-caliber projectile, yet remains affordable.

www.americanhunter.org

 

[KRC]

Ballistics are close to a 22LR.
"Initial accuracy results are very impressive"
What does that mean????? (And WHY is no data provided?)

If not significantly better precision, what's the point? What niche?
What will the cost of ammo be and how good will it be???
Will it be allowed in existing 22LR and especially 22LR BR competition?
Who even sells a rifle with this chambering and bore diameter barrel??
Are the premium barrelmakers going to start producing SS hand-lapped match barrel for this?

I'll forecast a short life for this cartridge. Another one (like the 224Valkyrie) probably designed on a bar napkin late during a Friday night Happy Hour.

 

[lazarus]

What would be the benefit from the user's perspective ?

It might seem an easy thing from Ammo mfg perspective , but would be a pain for the Rifle mfg .

A more sensable approach ( if you felt the need at all ) would be using a .22WMR basic case , and shorten to .22 LR length , loaded to .LR pressures , using bullet diameter compatible with standard .22 LR bore specs .

Ammo manufacturer simplicity is what is more important. If these could be run on a 22lr line with just an adjustment on the machines and different bullets, that would be huge. Needing an entirely different line and different cases (or having to cut cases) increases prices a lot.

The only way this has a prayer is if ammo prices can be close to 22lr prices. 22wmr is the next most popular rimfire cartridge and its sales in guns and ammo is tiny, because ammo is 3x more than 22lr. Fine for hunting, but plinking? Why? The difference between 22lr and 22wmr isn't all that much, so unless you are plinking at 200yds or something, you are burning twice the cash for the same amount down range. Might as well run 9mm, which is cheaper than 22wmr these days, or even .223 or only a slight premium than 22wmr, but a LOT more effect.

The bonus here is with non-heeled bullets, the BC of the bullets is a lot higher. Reloading isn't really a concern for a rimfire, so non-standard bullet size isn't a concern.

I did finally read the article, and it looks very promising. Just initial production is 1300fps for a 42gr FMJ and 1750fps for a 25gr copper matrix bullet. I really hope the twist rate is fast enough to stabilize heavier bullets. I really, really, really want a boat tail 50gr bullet around 1050fps. Even with fractionally smaller diameter bullets, a good soft hollow point would be a lot more effective than what 22lr can generally deliver (which are usually 950-1000fps 45gr subs with heeled bullets). A lot less wind drift than what 22lr has, and the large increase in BC would increase maximum point blank range a little. Granted, you'd be talking maybe like 5-10yds, but when you are often aiming at critters with vital areas the size of a silver dollar...shaving tenths of an inch off wind drift and reducing drop the same are big wins.

 

[smokey]

What would be the benefit from the user's perspective ?

It might seem an easy thing from Ammo mfg perspective , but would be a pain for the Rifle mfg .

A more sensable approach ( if you felt the need at all ) would be using a .22WMR basic case , and shorten to .22 LR length , loaded to .LR pressures , using bullet diameter compatible with standard .22 LR bore specs .

They wanted to load projectiles that are fmj or copper solids. to do this, they have to press the bullet into the casing like what happens with centerfire projectiles. This means there is a difference between the casing diameter and the diameter of the bullet of twice the casing thickness.

If they changed the chamber to keep the bore size .22, then manufacturers could not use existing tooling for the casings and would have to spool up entirely new casing production. The path of least resistance is to instead keep the casings, press the .21 bullets into the casings and have manufacturers just produce barrels with a .21 bore instead of .22 bore.

The result of doing this means .22lr gets to stay pretty cheap, but picks up much better ballistics with the newer bullet designs vs shoed lead or copper plated bullets. It's a pretty smart idea, provided the market comes through on the manufacturer's side with guns barreled for this new cartridge.

I do wonder what happens if someone tries chucking a regular .22lr into a .21 bore with this new cartridge. I'm guessing it'll either fail to go in to battery as the bullet smacks the lead to the bore at the end of the chamber, or if forced, the bullet would just swage down to fit the .21 bore, shaving some lead off in the process.

Reversing it to fire one of these from a .22lr would likely just result in insufficient stabilization and maybe some keyholing but nothing negative otherwise.

 

[smokey]

Ammo manufacturer simplicity is what is more important. If these could be run on a 22lr line with just an adjustment on the machines and different bullets, that would be huge. Needing an entirely different line and different cases (or having to cut cases) increases prices a lot.

The only way this has a prayer is if ammo prices can be close to 22lr prices. 22wmr is the next most popular rimfire cartridge and its sales in guns and ammo is tiny, because ammo is 3x more than 22lr. Fine for hunting, but plinking? Why? The difference between 22lr and 22wmr isn't all that much, so unless you are plinking at 200yds or something, you are burning twice the cash for the same amount down range. Might as well run 9mm, which is cheaper than 22wmr these days, or even .223 or only a slight premium than 22wmr, but a LOT more effect.

The bonus here is with non-heeled bullets, the BC of the bullets is a lot higher. Reloading isn't really a concern for a rimfire, so non-standard bullet size isn't a concern.

I did finally read the article, and it looks very promising. Just initial production is 1300fps for a 42gr FMJ and 1750fps for a 25gr copper matrix bullet. I really hope the twist rate is fast enough to stabilize heavier bullets. I really, really, really want a boat tail 50gr bullet around 1050fps. Even with fractionally smaller diameter bullets, a good soft hollow point would be a lot more effective than what 22lr can generally deliver (which are usually 950-1000fps 45gr subs with heeled bullets). A lot less wind drift than what 22lr has, and the large increase in BC would increase maximum point blank range a little. Granted, you'd be talking maybe like 5-10yds, but when you are often aiming at critters with vital areas the size of a silver dollar...shaving tenths of an inch off wind drift and reducing drop the same are big wins.

imagine a light/fast copper solid version of .22lr similar to the barnes vor-tx that expands out into those lovely little propellers of death. It'd do pretty well on small game and may be a valid choice for a defensive .22lr IF that's all someone wants to carry.

 

[lazarus]

Ballistics are close to a 22LR.
"Initial accuracy results are very impressive"
What does that mean????? (And WHY is no data provided?)

If not significantly better precision, what's the point? What niche?
What will the cost of ammo be and how good will it be???
Will it be allowed in existing 22LR and especially 22LR BR competition?
Who even sells a rifle with this chambering and bore diameter barrel??
Are the premium barrelmakers going to start producing SS hand-lapped match barrel for this?

I'll forecast a short life for this cartridge. Another one (like the 224Valkyrie) probably designed on a bar napkin late during a Friday night Happy Hour.

If not significantly better precision, what's the point? What niche? 22lr is already capable of really good precision. However, this is likely going to be better precision for cheaper ammo. It is easier to produce an accurate load with non-heeled bullets and case than with heeled bullet and case. Cheaper to make accurate ammo than 22lr.

What will the cost of ammo be and how good will it be??? That would be nice to know what Winchester's initial 21 sharp ammo price point is. Sounds like pretty good though.

Will it be allowed in existing 22LR and especially 22LR BR competition? Since it was JUST announced, the answer is up to those governing bodies. Likely no. Are other rimfire calibers allowed in 22lr competitions? I assume no. Doesn't mean 21 sharps won't open up competition there if it proves to have a following

Who even sells a rifle with this chambering and bore diameter barrel?? Winchester will be at least. Looks like Xpert rimfire rifles and maybe Wildcats in the marketing photos in the article.

Are the premium barrelmakers going to start producing SS hand-lapped match barrel for this? Do they do that for any other rimfire caliber? If it proves to have a good following, I am sure they will

 

[lazarus]

imagine a light/fast copper solid version of .22lr similar to the barnes vor-tx that expands out into those lovely little propellers of death. It'd do pretty well on small game and may be a valid choice for a defensive .22lr IF that's all someone wants to carry.

To that point, the article points out (and they are right) its easier to produce traditional bullet designs for this than what a heeled bullet requires. The latter must use softer materials and things like jacketed bullets aren't a strict no, but are very difficult to do (and very expensive).

This allows inexpensive traditional bullet manufacture like FMJ and jacketed hollow points. So you can have good and controlled expansion over a wide velocity range. 22lr tends to have a very narrow expansion range. Slow down a bit and it doesn't expand at all. Go somewhat faster and it fragments.

Stingers from a rifle tend to fragment at close ranges, expand are devastating at medium ranges, and tends to not really expand at longer ranges. And with the better BC, the velocity will drop a lot slower. So, you can potentially have a nice JHP that might well expand well from point blank to 100, 150+yds. Rather than maybe have a good expansion range from 30-80yds.

 

[MeatGrinder]

Winchester Ammunition Introduces NEW 21 Sharp Rimfire Cartridge

Winchester Ammunition introduces 21 Sharp, a new rimfire cartridge with an innovative design that provides significant benefits for recreational shooters and small game hunters.

www.ammoland.com

Another article

 

[Mini14tac]

Savage is apparently jumping on the bandwagon. Interesting that the rate of twist is 1:10 vs 1:16 in 22LR. Similar to the 17HMR that is 1:9.

21 Sharp | Browse All 21 Sharp Rifles | Savage Arms

Explore our full lineup of Savage 21 Sharp rifles, designed for rimfire accuracy, reliability, and performance. Hunt and shoot with precision and confidence.

savagearms.com