Need advice on clays gun...

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  • blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    Krieghoff?

    Yup. Narrowed the K collection to one K80 for sporting, one K32 for flyers and one KDR (double rifle) .470NE for making big rocks into small rocks. Life is too short to shoot disposable guns!
     

    RetNavyHD

    Member
    Dec 7, 2008
    610
    North East, MD
    Ah, so you are the guy with the old field gun that outshoots the K80 guys. I often hear about this, but have never seen it. Now, my K80 didn't cost $50,000, but I'm willing to take a chance on you beating me with that GECO guild gun. Let's get together and shoot a round of sporting and see what happens....at PG perhaps. If nothing else, it's a day afield. Can we post the scores afterwards?

    I wanna play as well! I'll use my 391 with only one choke tube that cost $1500 in case he can't beat your K-gun! .....:lol2:

    And we can post all the scores I won't mind one bit ....
     

    BlueHeeler

    Active Member
    Apr 28, 2010
    7,086
    Washington, DC
    I've got a Belgian Browning Lightning 30" F/IM for $1800. Gun is in great shape. If you are interested....:D

    Are you joking? Gunbroker says that is a $830 gun. I know enough to know what I do not know, so I look it up. In the case of O/U that is very true.;)

    browningf.jpg
     

    boule

    Active Member
    Oct 16, 2008
    1,908
    Galt's Gulch
    Ah, so you are the guy with the old field gun that outshoots the K80 guys. I often hear about this, but have never seen it.
    Oh, that is just for trap on the AGC field, shooting trap. We have 1-2 persons there that insist that any gun below 1k is probably not worth it. After a little bit of training, I can now usually disprove them with 21-23 birds while some people with specially adapted, hilariously expensive guns explicitly set up for trap don't seem to do much better. At least I admit that when I pull the trigger and the bird still flies it usually is operator error!


    Now, my K80 didn't cost $50,000,
    Just figured, you might not have spent enough :innocent0

    but I'm willing to take a chance on you beating me with that GECO guild gun. Let's get together and shoot a round of sporting and see what happens....at PG perhaps.

    Hm, I believe you will have me at a slight disadvantage. I usually shoot trap and have done sporting clays twice in my life and have probably less training than you, too. I'll be up to a friendly challenge but if you insist on gaining publishable data, we should exchange guns about halfway. Either I get a lot better suddenly (and you a lot worse) or it's still the shooter who makes or breaks the results.
    Oh, and we should probably invite our OP as well..... just for him to try out as many guns as possible.
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    Browning Citoris come in many configurations. They are not all target guns. There are Trap, Skeet, Sporting and Field models. All are designed for a specific purpose.
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    Oh, that is just for trap on the AGC field, shooting trap. We have 1-2 persons there that insist that any gun below 1k is probably not worth it. After a little bit of training, I can now usually disprove them with 21-23 birds while some people with specially adapted, hilariously expensive guns explicitly set up for trap don't seem to do much better. At least I admit that when I pull the trigger and the bird still flies it usually is operator error!

    I would think that those you spoke with were referring to longevity and not an ability to actually break a target with an inexpensive gun. By the way, that score of 21-23 is OK for soft targets at the AGC or just screwing around, but at a big shoot, those averages place you in the lowest class (D) in the ATA. Don't be fooled into thinking that "hilariously expensive guns explicitly set up for trap don't seem to do much better". As in all sports, the best equipment helps, but in the end it's the shooter. Just because someone shoots the same as you do and he shoots a $10K Perazzi, it is not a reflection on the gun. At ATA shoots, you will find that those "hilariously expensive guns" are pretty much the norm. The best shooters shoot quality guns.



    Just figured, you might not have spent enough :innocent0

    I understand.

    Hm, I believe you will have me at a slight disadvantage. I usually shoot trap and have done sporting clays twice in my life and have probably less training than you, too. I'll be up to a friendly challenge but if you insist on gaining publishable data, we should exchange guns about halfway. Either I get a lot better suddenly (and you a lot worse) or it's still the shooter who makes or breaks the results.
    Oh, and we should probably invite our OP as well..... just for him to try out as many guns as possible.

    No problem. We can shoot Trap. I've been known to do that. No Krieghoff for that. Have to use my SBT as it has a release.
     

    jdramsey

    Troll hunter.
    Aug 5, 2009
    498
    St. Mary's Co. MD
    Trap and Sporting clays are to very different games. A trap gun is usually a single barrel breach loaded gun (not that this really matters). The primary difference with a trap gun is the elevated and sloped rib. This is designed for shooting birds that are climbing. As every trap target you'll ever shoot will be climbing upwards from the trap house. And the sloped rib creates a built in lead on the target. Sporting clays and Skeet can be shot with just about any field or sporting gun of your choice. I use a Franchi 712 Raptor, because it gave me the features I wanted for a around $1000 (30" ported barrel, interchangable chokes, stock shims to adjust the drop of the stock... ect.) And it works great for Skeet and Sporing clays. But it's not a trap gun by any means.
     

    circleshooter

    Active Member
    Nov 8, 2009
    1,761
    Baltimore County
    My personal opinion is that, if you only want a single gun, that something in the "sporting" configuration is the way to go and I wouldn't bother with anything longer than a 30" barrel. I have two - a Browning 525 and a Beretta 391 Teknys Sporting - and I've shot all of the clay games with both of them.

    I think that if you find a gun you really like to shoot sporting clays with then you're definitely set for skeet, trap and the other games. Sporting clays incorporates so many different types of target presentations that moving to skeet/trap is no problem. Change out the chokes and you're ready to go.

    I like to shoot sporting clays with my Beretta 391 Teknys, but I believe that O/U's probably make the best overall choice if you want one gun. Less moving parts, easier to clean, and you don't have to chase any shell hulls.

    You should easily be able to find a used gun in great condition in your price range.
     

    nk02442

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 28, 2011
    459
    All comes down to how much you want to spend, and if you want a semi or an O/U.

    If your not sure, buy a nice used 390/301/Browning Gold for around 500 bucks, shoot the piss out of it, and you will have an idea what you want if you stick with the sport. You can also use them for hunting. If you dont like it, you can sell it for what you paid. The 390 was the standard for Semis and all the newer shit 391/tenkys/xplore are built on that foundation. A nice 28-30" 390 is the best bang for the buck(except benelli which is alot more money)
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    My personal opinion is that, if you only want a single gun, that something in the "sporting" configuration is the way to go and I wouldn't bother with anything longer than a 30" barrel. I have two - a Browning 525 and a Beretta 391 Teknys Sporting - and I've shot all of the clay games with both of them.

    I think that if you find a gun you really like to shoot sporting clays with then you're definitely set for skeet, trap and the other games. Sporting clays incorporates so many different types of target presentations that moving to skeet/trap is no problem. Change out the chokes and you're ready to go.

    I like to shoot sporting clays with my Beretta 391 Teknys, but I believe that O/U's probably make the best overall choice if you want one gun. Less moving parts, easier to clean, and you don't have to chase any shell hulls.

    You should easily be able to find a used gun in great condition in your price range.

    That might work for some shooters, but it won't work for all and won't work for better trap shooters. For instance, my 32" Sporter shoots 60/40 patterns and that works fine for me in Sporting. My 34" Trap Gun shoots 100% high, is longer and has a much different trigger, so I would certainly struggle with a Sporter for Trap. Over time, most will realize that a seperate gun is needed for each sport if you are at all going to be serious about it. That is also true of Bunker..... or different game birds. Heck... it gives you an excuse to buy more guns. That's a GOOD thing!
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    52,964
    Bel Air
    Are you joking? Gunbroker says that is a $830 gun. I know enough to know what I do not know, so I look it up. In the case of O/U that is very true.;)

    browningf.jpg

    This was a salt-wood era gun, and that affects the value. The Belgian guns usually command a premium....
    Look around at more Brownings made in Belgium. There are different grades etc. You will find they go for an awful lot more than $850...

    The gun belongs to my Father-in-law. I'm sure the price is negotiable.
     

    circleshooter

    Active Member
    Nov 8, 2009
    1,761
    Baltimore County
    That might work for some shooters, but it won't work for all and won't work for better trap shooters. For instance, my 32" Sporter shoots 60/40 patterns and that works fine for me in Sporting. My 34" Trap Gun shoots 100% high, is longer and has a much different trigger, so I would certainly struggle with a Sporter for Trap. Over time, most will realize that a seperate gun is needed for each sport if you are at all going to be serious about it. That is also true of Bunker..... or different game birds. Heck... it gives you an excuse to buy more guns. That's a GOOD thing!


    I agree with what you say. There's definitely a reason for specialty guns. But my thoughts were really meant for someone that wasn't going to shoot hundreds of targets per week. I love to shoot, and try my best to shoot 100 skeet targets every week (and twice when I can). Sporting clays once a month or so. In case everyone hasn't noticed - shooting can get a bit expensive! LOL!

    And I still think that if you're going to have a single target gun that one in the sporting configuration is the way to go.

    But...I turn 50 next summer and I'm seriously thinking about something along the lines of a Caesar Guerini Challenge Impact or a Blaser F3 Supersport as my present to myself. These both have slightly higher ribs, to allow you to keep your head up more, as well as adjustable ribs which you can tweak to your liking and the game you're shooting.
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    If you shoot the 870 well then a semi is probably your best bet. Most O/U's are very fit subjective and hard to impossible to adjust.(exept for the really pricey ones) I tried to make the transition 20yrs ago and gave up and set my O/U up as a slug double rifle and range loaner. You can get almost any configuration of barrel including a trap rib for the 1100/1187 as well as almost too many stock options to choose from. You can even swap on a short barrel and mag extension for around the house work as well. You may not set the Krieghoff/ BBB snobs drooling but if it fits and works for you go for it.
     

    nk02442

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 28, 2011
    459
    I wouldnt get a 3200. Its a good action but old. Kregoff bought it and made the K32 from it back in the day.

    Buy a quality, cheap autoloader. Shoot the piss out of it and then you will have an idea what you want.
     

    nk02442

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 28, 2011
    459
    I agree with what you say. There's definitely a reason for specialty guns. But my thoughts were really meant for someone that wasn't going to shoot hundreds of targets per week. I love to shoot, and try my best to shoot 100 skeet targets every week (and twice when I can). Sporting clays once a month or so. In case everyone hasn't noticed - shooting can get a bit expensive! LOL!

    And I still think that if you're going to have a single target gun that one in the sporting configuration is the way to go.

    But...I turn 50 next summer and I'm seriously thinking about something along the lines of a Caesar Guerini Challenge Impact or a Blaser F3 Supersport as my present to myself. These both have slightly higher ribs, to allow you to keep your head up more, as well as adjustable ribs which you can tweak to your liking and the game you're shooting.

    The Caesar Guerini's are the best kept secret in that price range. They are a greta mix of durrability and crafsmanship. Plus they are based out of Cambridge so you can go down there and have their master fitter, fit a gun to you. They also do pit stops to tune the gun up everyyear.
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    I wouldnt get a 3200. Its a good action but old. Kregoff bought it and made the K32 from it back in the day.

    Buy a quality, cheap autoloader. Shoot the piss out of it and then you will have an idea what you want.

    A 3200 has nothing to do with a Krieghoff Model 32 or K80. A Krieghoff was a copy of a Remington 32 made from 1932 through 1940. The 3200 is a 1970s gun.

    A 3200 is a fairly rugged O/U and makes a good doubles gun. They shoot too flat for other trap games. They are a decent gun, but don't buy one that has not been upgraded.
     

    blackthorne

    Banned
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    Aug 31, 2010
    1,499
    Naptown
    The Caesar Guerini's are the best kept secret in that price range. They are a greta mix of durrability and crafsmanship. Plus they are based out of Cambridge so you can go down there and have their master fitter, fit a gun to you. They also do pit stops to tune the gun up everyyear.

    The downside to a Guerini is that they are unproven commodity and they do not hold their value. If I were going to buy myself a 50th birthday present, it would be a Perazzi or a Krieghoff. It doesn't get better than that and life is too short to settle for 3rd or 4th place.
     

    Augie

    Active Member
    Sep 30, 2007
    4,141
    Central MD
    Nk02442, the Guerini's are coming on strong,more and more of them are showing up at the ranges and doing well. They have now been in the country almost 10 years now and very few problems have been reported and when there is a problem Guerini is quick to fix it.
    I own 3 now and the Impact my latest is an all around gun, very easy to adjust to shoot all the clay sports well. Really hard to beat the Impact if you want only one gun.
    As far as holding value I follow used gun values pretty close and none of the high end guns are going for asking price right now, not much difference between a 5k Guerini that drops 1500 or a 10k Krieghoff that drops 3k,works out to the same percentage. Sellers over on Trapshooters are having to drop prices of most guns to get them to move.

    DSCN0398.jpg
     

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