My First M1 any help would be great.

[blazzent45]

blazzent45,

Welcome to the MDS forum. There are many very knowledgeable folks who regularly contribute here. And welcome to the world of M1 Garands. They are in a class of their own.

You will get varied advice here. I’ve never dealt with Mr. Maloney but I’ve always heard he’s among the best locally on Garands. I’d also highly recommend you read and learn as much as you can about the rifle. Understanding their history and how the M1 is built and operates will be of major value to your enjoying your rifle.

The CMP is among the best places to start. In addition to their website and forum they offer classes on M1’s. 4570inMD and I attended an advanced armorer class together in 2018. It was well worth the cost and an experience we’ll always remember.

Regarding your rifle, I would strip and clean the action and validate function and safety BEFORE ever firing it. AND, has been said, shoot ONLY M2 Ball rated ammo.

Below are links to the 2022 CMP class sign ups and a thread about our trip. Please update us on your M1 progress!



https://thecmp.org/training-tech/advanced-maintenance-class/

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=217956

I most certainly am not rushing to shoot the rifle before a proper looking over, I doubt the pawn shop took the time nor spent the money on having it looked at. And thank you so much for the information I am eager to learn everything I can about working on the great peace of history.

 

[blazzent45]

Heres your barrel.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=294633

Not a bad deal, the only thing is that the barrel has been finished reamed. I'm not sure I want to take a chance that it will headspace with my bolt.

 

[Trepang]

Not implying it’s not important but every time I hear someone mention “headspace” when talking about Garands, M1 Carbines or 1911’s I think of this picture from the South Pacific in WWII.

Somehow, I doubt those guys checked headspace when jamming bolts back in guns.

 

[SKIP]

That should be titled After the Battle.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Not a bad deal, the only thing is that the barrel has been finished reamed. I'm not sure I want to take a chance that it will headspace with my bolt.

Thats a valid point however I think its unlikely unless you have a Winchester reciever or bolt. Or one of those cast Springfield clones or Lithgow/CAI receivers which I dont think you do.

In fact you would more than likely be better suited to be concerned about over index/crush than an out of spec chamber.

I think it would be easier to deal with the above mentioned and not have to pay a smith for having a pull through or wind up with a barrel that's too short from having to install/remove with conventional reamer or lathe services.

A garand chamber is better off to have correct radial tolerances-easy close rather than too tight for slam fire /oos spec or incompatible ammo.
If you could get your rifle to Mr Malone and he has a spare,more than likely its going to have a finish chamber before he in installs it. (take off )

 

[JohnC]

Not implying it’s not important but every time I hear someone mention “headspace” when talking about Garands, M1 Carbines or 1911’s I think of this picture from the South Pacific in WWII.

Somehow, I doubt those guys checked headspace when jamming bolts back in guns.

Very true. I've encountered a handful of garand bolts, and they all headspace fine with my go/no-go/field gauges in two receivers. This seems to be the norm, where they are usually drop in parts. Good combination of design, precision manufacturing and loose enough tolerances.

1911's on the other hand, maybe more a handfit than your 1903 or M1 garand

An interesting counterpoint was that the USMC never wanted a parkerized bolt in their rebuilt 03's in the interwar and build up to deployment. They specifically requested blued for smoother function and a headspace that wouldn't drift larger as the park wore off.

I have wondered why many USMC rebuilds are electro-penciled with the receiver number on the bolt. I would imagine it's for headspacing reasons, but not sure I've seen a real explanation other than "it was done".

 

[Ponder_MD]

I found Charlie's rates to be so reasonable that it just wasn't worth it to me to try to cobble something together out of other used parts. Also, I'm inexperienced and not a gunsmith.
I understand that my situation doesn't apply to everyone, I'm just relating my experience.

Oh- his turnaround time was only a week or so for all of that work. Very reasonable. I might have taken a different path if it was going to be months or something.

 

[blazzent45]

cast Springfield clones

Oh my Lord there are fake Springfield receivers that I have to worry about now.....lol how would do we spot a cast Springfield receiver clone?

 

[Doco Overboard]

Oh my Lord there are fake Springfield receivers that I have to worry about now.....lol how would do we spot a cast Springfield receiver clone?

When you screw a finished barrel to it more than likely you’ll need a field guage and have to carefully feel for bolt lug contact.
Sight serrations for elevation knobs are generally worn or weak, heel stampings font looks different or is absent, wear area like op track and dismount milling surfaces are funny, casting lines , rear sight base area suffers etc. Also forge shape at review front unlike genuine article etc.
Ironically one cast receiver I have, the bolt safety /cam lug ramps pass a visual better than some authentic reviewers I worked on in the past. Visual only, a gauge is the only reliable way to confirm that. It’s the other deficiencies that add up to making them not so well to use.
Like needing a short chambered barrel to set head space.
I wouldn’t worry so much about a SA inc cast receiver as much as the others, just not GI is all. Look for heat treating/ drawing numbers to differentiate the types that are out there.

 

[ken792]

Very true. I've encountered a handful of garand bolts, and they all headspace fine with my go/no-go/field gauges in two receivers. This seems to be the norm, where they are usually drop in parts. Good combination of design, precision manufacturing and loose enough tolerances.

1911's on the other hand, maybe more a handfit than your 1903 or M1 garand

An interesting counterpoint was that the USMC never wanted a parkerized bolt in their rebuilt 03's in the interwar and build up to deployment. They specifically requested blued for smoother function and a headspace that wouldn't drift larger as the park wore off.

I have wondered why many USMC rebuilds are electro-penciled with the receiver number on the bolt. I would imagine it's for headspacing reasons, but not sure I've seen a real explanation other than "it was done".

The electropenciling was started during the interwar era because USMC reserve units were storing bolts separately to prevent theft. That helped match them back up and guarantee headspace when the reservists went to drill.

https://usmcweaponry.com/pre-war-wwii-usmc-m1903s/

At the lower echelon level bolts were commonly swapped, leaving a fair amount of rifles with dangerous headspacing. In some organizations, like Marine Reserve units, the bolts of the rifles were collected after a weekend drill and then stored in a box under lock and key. During the next drill, the bolts would be passed out at random, creating a situation were headspace was often outside of the range of safe operation. To remedy this, Marine gunners were tasked to inspect reserve rifles unit by unit, making sure safe headspacing was achieved. Afterwards, their bolts would be serialized to ensure each Marine would receive the same bolt every drill. Bolt wear was significant, particularly to the lugs which would wear down over time. Eventually a policy would be adopted that only Philadelphia Depot armorers would be allowed to set the headspacing for a rifle, and the bolt would have the rifle’s serial number inscribed atop it via electro-pencil.

A similar thing apparently happened in the 60s when National Guard armories started storing M1 Garand bolts separately too. The bolts were numbered. A lot of people have got untouched 60s rebuilt M1s from the CMP with serialized bolt that don’t follow the Danish or Greek style.

 

[Straightbolt]

Thanks Ponder, I ran across Charlie's website as well and was considering contacting him. This rifle is in rough shape as far as I can tell it will need a new barrel for sure.
303 Brit with a .3115 pill and the second is a .300 black with .308.......

How much does a pawn shop charge for an M1 with a barrel that needs to be replaced ?
Is the CMP out of rifles ?

 

[firemanyz]

M1

How much does a pawn shop charge for an M1 with a barrel that needs to be replaced ?
Is the CMP out of rifles ?

Not sure what a pawn shop is charging, but the CMP does still have some rifles. They only have what they are calling expert grade available right now. As issued receiver and small parts, with a new barrel and new wood. They are charging $1000 I believe. They have not had service or field grades available for about 6 months.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Rifle seems to be wartime 44 SA and equipped with a decent op rod.
I would have bought that from a pawn shop needing a barrel no problem especially if it was priced to move.
Nice grab/ if that's the case.

Used barrel has reduced price with shipping included. I dont even see 06 CBi barrels on e-store anymore.
I wonder if saturation is getting high/more prevalent so they may harder to source in the future?

308 barrels weren't available either, didn't check to see if they had any P14 mixed in there, they were GTg in the past. A3 were back ordered as well, some Krags left.
Prolly ought to snag one of them just for the hell of it to have it around.
Barrel stub/tenon is the same for both the Garand and Krag.

The old rifles are fun to mess around with if you have the time money desire to be frustrated at times & so on.
View attachment 336121

 

[blazzent45]

Not sure what a pawn shop is charging, but the CMP does still have some rifles. They only have what they are calling expert grade available right now. As issued receiver and small parts, with a new barrel and new wood. They are charging $1000 I believe. They have not had service or field grades available for about 6 months.

$900 probably too much, but I'm going to take things slow have it evaluated. And shoot the barrel as is, I may counterbore the muzzle to improve some of the accuracy. Unfortunately I don't belong to any clubs that are CMP affiliated. So a CMP rifle is out of reach at the moment. It did come with a spare bolt that has the correct date code when I go to swap barrels.

And I think it was produced October-November 1943 according to the serial number 2, 1xx,xxx.

 

[JohnC]

$900 probably too much, but I'm going to take things slow have it evaluated. And shoot the barrel as is, I may counterbore the muzzle to improve some of the accuracy. Unfortunately I don't belong to any clubs that are CMP affiliated. So a CMP rifle is out of reach at the moment. It did come with a spare bolt that has the correct date code when I go to swap barrels.

And I think it was produced October-November 1943 according to the serial number 2, 1xx,xxx.

Go to garand collectors association, pay $25 and they will automatically send your info to the CMP and send you an ID card in a day or two.

AND they send you a magazine of cool garand stories every quarter or so. Easiest group to join that gives you CMP access.

And your HQL or AGC badge is sufficient for marksmanship requirements. It’s a very simple
Process, please PM me if you’d like further guidance.

 

[Augie]

$900 probably too much, but I'm going to take things slow have it evaluated. And shoot the barrel as is, I may counterbore the muzzle to improve some of the accuracy. Unfortunately I don't belong to any clubs that are CMP affiliated. So a CMP rifle is out of reach at the moment. It did come with a spare bolt that has the correct date code when I go to swap barrels.

And I think it was produced October-November 1943 according to the serial number 2, 1xx,xxx.

Pretty sure you can’t counterbore a Garand, gas port is too close to end of barrel and you will have no gas pressure.

 

[bigmancrisler]

$900 probably too much, but I'm going to take things slow have it evaluated. And shoot the barrel as is, I may counterbore the muzzle to improve some of the accuracy. Unfortunately I don't belong to any clubs that are CMP affiliated. So a CMP rifle is out of reach at the moment. It did come with a spare bolt that has the correct date code when I go to swap barrels.

And I think it was produced October-November 1943 according to the serial number 2, 1xx,xxx.

I think with CMP pretty much being out of the question from the sounds of it, getting one for $900 and then getting a $200~ criterion barrel for it still puts you under anything I’ve ever seen on GB and mostly under what I’ve ever seen in a shop.

 

[ken792]

Pretty sure you can’t counterbore a Garand, gas port is too close to end of barrel and you will have no gas pressure.

It’s been done before and the rifles usually still function. You could ream the gas port if needed, but I haven’t heard of it being necessary.

 

[blazzent45]

It’s been done before and the rifles usually still function. You could ream the gas port if needed, but I haven’t heard of it being necessary.

I can tell you that if it has to be counter-bored all the way to that gas port the barrel is most definitely getting replaced. As far as I can see by eye it would have to be bored .250 or so deep ( no where near the gas port). It is not the original 1943 Springfield barrel anyhow, it was rearsenaled in 1965 with a replacement Springfield barrel. There's really no sentimental value, but I can counter-bore the muzzle myself.

 

[blazzent45]

I think with CMP pretty much being out of the question from the sounds of it, getting one for $900 and then getting a $200~ criterion barrel for it still puts you under anything I’ve ever seen on GB and mostly under what I’ve ever seen in a shop.

A CMP rifle wasn't really out of reach, just a longer wait time. And when I saw this rifle all I can think of is how much work it was going to need. But then thought somebody has to bring it back to its former glory so why not me, it wasn't really a horrible price. I'll get great satisfaction of learning my rifle and putting the work into it to clean it up and get it shooting well.