MSP Licensing Division report to Legislature 1/25/2023

[dblas]

114,000+ permits x $100.00 $75.00, great windfall for the MD budget.

Corrected it for you

 

[rbird7282]

114,000+ permits x $100.00 great windfall for the MD budget.

They don’t care. They didn’t care about the lost tax base from Beretta when they passed FSA2103. They want you and your guns gone. They’ll just raise taxes on everyone else.


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[dontpanic]

Their answer is that the W&C and the HQL are state level permits and state law controls, so the state does not see the MMC as a prohibitor to getting either card.
As for purchasing, federal law is still controlling and a MMC is a prohibitor for purchase.

Thank you sir. I figured that was the case. Just weird to hear them admit it.

 

[rswangz]

I've told several people about the removal of G&S and then they ask what they need to do to get the permit. I don't even make it to the financial cost before they cut me off and say that's ridiculous.

 

[AKbythebay]

I suspect Talbot, Somerset and Kent have such low numbers because of local poverty.

Talbot has the 6th highest income per capita in the state. One notch below my county (QA)

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[AKbythebay]

Have you been to Talbot Co. lately? There are no poor there, it's overrun with rich liberals fleeing DC.

It also has plenty of rich retirees who moved there specifically due to the conservative environment and low taxes. Talbot is still a very conservative county. Not every rich person is liberal. Most of the libs tend to flee to Kent Co. (Chestertown).

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[Mark75H]

It also has plenty of rich retirees who moved there specifically due to the conservative environment and low taxes. Talbot is still a very conservative county. Not every rich person is liberal. Most of the libs tend to flee to Kent Co. (Chestertown).

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Population of Kent County is actually decreasing

 

[fabsroman]

Carroll County is not a very good place to live. That is why the numbers are so high.
I don't recommend moving to Carroll, especially if you are in Montgomery, Howard or PG counties.

People from Baltimore County, Baltimore City, and Anne Arundel County probably could not survive the conditions in Carroll County either. They need to look to relocate to PA or VA.

 

[fabsroman]

I’m a progressive from MoCo who wants to leave MoCo because of their paternalistic laws and high taxes, but I want to stay in Maryland because it is a safe space for me to express myself.

I intend to vote blue no matter who and then feel morally superior to everyone because I did my part to make the world a better place. That’s it, that’s all I do for my fellow man: vote democrat. No volunteering, not charitable giving, nada.

I’ve heard good things about Carroll County, why don’t you think it’s nice? Based on what I’ve said can you please recommend where you think I should go?

I think California, mainly Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco would be more your style. New York City, especially Manhattan, would probably suit you. Mind you, California and New York do have some areas with open country and you probably wouldn't like it there very much.

Now that I think about it, Newark, New Jersey might be the promised land for you.

If you really want to stay in Maryland, the citizens of PG County could use your help.

 

[Allen65]

People from Baltimore County, Baltimore City, and Anne Arundel County probably could not survive the conditions in Carroll County either. They need to look to relocate to PA or VA.

Those of us in Southern AACO say the same to those north of South River about our part of the county.

 

[fabsroman]

Perhaps. But if you break it down by numbers, Carroll does not have 7x the percentage of conservatives than MoCo does. Is it is a LOT more? For sure.

According to Carroll County board of elections as of January, there were 64k registered republicans, 33k registered democrats, 29k unaffiliated. 2:1 Republican to Dem. About an even split between Republican and Dem or Unaffiliated.

MoCo is 411k Dems, 97k Republicans, 158k unaffiliated. About 4:1 Dem to Republican, or about 8:5 Dem to Republican/Unaffiliated. You'd have to assume all of those unaffiliated in MoCo are closet libs and all of those unaffiliated in Carroll are closet conservatives before you start getting close to the ratios you'd need to see a similar set of ratios in handgun permitting. You'd get about 6:1 in MoCo and 1:3 in Carroll With the handgun ratios being about 7:1 Carroll to MoCo. Even looking at other counties, there a lot of counties in Maryland that are much higher Republican to Democrat ratios than Carroll is.

I have no doubt politics and political persuasion as well as gun ownership rates probably have a ton to do with it. But it isn't all of it. I would be curious to know what IS behind it all, because I don't think that explains it, in its entirety.

Last year, I saw a bumper sticker at Route 26 & Route 32, and it said, "Courage is being a liberal and living in Carroll". I laughed, and then for a brief second thought about taking my truck and running the person and her tiny, tiny car off the road.

I spent 40 years of my life in Montgomery, 8 years in Howard, and a little over 3 years in Carroll. Not going back to Montgomery or Howard unless I am offered $1,000,000 a year to watch the grass grow. For me, it is blissful here. 12 minutes to Mount Airy, 12 minutes to Eldersburg, 15 minutes to Westminster, and 30 minutes to downtown Frederick. I am in a sweet spot here, which I am sure is going to sour over the years. 12.5 years and my youngest is done with grade school. Then, the options start to open up.

Even if all four of my children stay here, I think we will end up moving to a different state and keeping a place here. 185+ days in the other state and then some drive/flight time back and forth to Maryland to visit.

 

[fabsroman]

In the case of MoCo, I'm wondering how many folks that would have otherwise applied for a permit were dissuaded when MoCo bill 21-22 was rolled out in July or are now taking a "wait and see" attitude with everything that transpired with it since. I suspect it's essentially the additive effect of multiple causes keeping the % as low as it is there, though.

My brothers and a brother in-law put the brakes on getting a permit once MoCo passed that ridiculous law. So, at least 3. Betting there is one or two more.

Then again, MoCo is a very safe place to live. Gaithersburg, Germantown, and downtown Silver Spring and just heavenly and full of angels.

 

[lazarus]

Last year, I saw a bumper sticker at Route 26 & Route 32, and it said, "Courage is being a liberal and living in Carroll". I laughed, and then for a brief second thought about taking my truck and running the person and her tiny, tiny car off the road.

I spent 40 years of my life in Montgomery, 8 years in Howard, and a little over 3 years in Carroll. Not going back to Montgomery or Howard unless I am offered $1,000,000 a year to watch the grass grow. For me, it is blissful here. 12 minutes to Mount Airy, 12 minutes to Eldersburg, 15 minutes to Westminster, and 30 minutes to downtown Frederick. I am in a sweet spot here, which I am sure is going to sour over the years. 12.5 years and my youngest is done with grade school. Then, the options start to open up.

Even if all four of my children stay here, I think we will end up moving to a different state and keeping a place here. 185+ days in the other state and then some drive/flight time back and forth to Maryland to visit.

My wife just this afternoon was mentioning how her parents retiring and moving to the eastern shore as she finished grad school made it really hard for her to keep in touch with friends (which is funny, because we live 40 minutes from where she grew up). We did talk that maybe that is what we do. Get the retirement place somewhere, but keep a place here in Maryland, but move up to Carroll. Maybe just a few miles over the border. Maybe much further up towards the PA line or Taneytown where we have other friends too. A lot depends on what our kids do. If they stay in Maryland, we will probably keep a foothold here too. If they don't, I have no real reason to stay. Not that I don't love the friends I have, or my wife's family. But we should have enough money in retirement to travel a lot. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law can put us up a bunch. They lived with us in our basement for more than 10 weeks after all. That was a real peach. But that probably also depends on my wife's parents when retirement comes. 17 years from now, who knows. That puts my father-in-law at almost 90 and my mother-in-law in her late 80s. There are in fantastic health, so they might still be around then. But my brother-in-law is almost 5 years younger than my wife. And their current youngest (assuming they don't have any more kids) would be turning 18 when I can retire. So I suspect they are here till sometime after we retire. Or at least I retire, my wife might keep working for her non-profit for a few years after that. But that can be from anywhere.

It is very nice to think about. I wish I could do more planning, but I doubt I will be able to really do much until my kids are just about done with college. Which still leaves me with about 6 years before I can retire. Even just 6 or 7 miles away in Carroll with a nice 3-4 bedroom rancher on 7-10 acres for half the price of my current house as the foothold wouldn't be a terrible thing. Like you said, spend 185 days somewhere else. If not more. Sell the place some year if I never need to worry about maintaining a foothold back here. I just hope I can do that move well before retirement when my kids are all done with school. If we aren't staying in MD, then I am not making the move to Carroll and I'll just tough it out in Howard till I retire. I don't want to move twice in ~5 years.

 

[Bob A]

People from Baltimore County, Baltimore City, and Anne Arundel County probably could not survive the conditions in Carroll County either. They need to look to relocate to PA or VA.

Personally, I feel that population would find a better fit by moving to DC.

 

[LAC_MD]

But...but Frosh said no one would even apply for a permit because no one needs one.

View attachment 399604

Man those denial numbers look real low even pre Bruen.

 

[Some Guy]

Thanks, OP for sharing this information. I referred to it in my written testimony against SB 0001. Thank you again for sharing it.

 

[lazarus]

Man those denial numbers look real low even pre Bruen.

pre-Bruen not many people applied who didn't have good cause.

IE business owners for the most part.

Post-Bruen most of those denials are likely people who failed the criminal/mental health background check or something in their training didn't check out. If I were to guess. Not much other reason you can fail. Though I guess if you don't submit proper documentation those are getting chalked up as failures? Though I'd think most people can cure that promptly and then get the approval, but not idea how MSP might be tracking those (as in process still, or failures).

 

[Biggfoot44]

Population of Kent County is actually decreasing

Most of the libs tend to flee to Kent Co. (Chestertown).

The two do not contradict each other .

Just means that more working class people , and young adults who don't want to stay on the farm/ small town are moving out , than affluent retirees moving in .

 

[Raineman]

Keep in mind MSP also had to pickup, what? 20 or so full time staff to handle the influx of permitting? Not including staff hours pulled from other work. That's more than I assume the extra staff is costing, but MSP probably picked up 2-3 million a year in salary and benefit obligations for those hired to work all of the permits. Plus, other costs to print and mail permits. Assuming permits cost nothing to process, that is $11.4 million. On a budget measured in the tens of billions, that is a drop in the bucket. When you figure probably half of that is getting sucked up by salaries they have to pay and various costs to process the paperwork and mail permits a few million isn't much in the end for the Maryland budget.

I have a good friend that works Licensing Division (I won't say where). He stated that MSP doesn't receive a nickel from the permit application fee. Says it all goes into the General Fund.

Now, whether that General Fund pays for the additional hires, who knows.

 

[LAC_MD]

I have a good friend that works Licensing Division (I won't say where). He stated that MSP doesn't receive a nickel from the permit application fee. Says it all goes into the General Fund.

Now, whether that General Fund pays for the additional hires, who knows.

Now that’s interesting. Bet it’s the same for the HQL and 77R Fees.