MSP Got one... Instructor caught cutting corners, permits invalidated.

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  • babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,019
    Glenelg
    Well, i just signed up for my 1st Amendment training. It is $500. I have to get fingerprinted, picture, and then if I want to protest, I will be having seven day waiting periods every time I want to protest, you know to make sure I have a cooler head. Also, I have to give references

    Smh
     

    jc1240

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 18, 2013
    14,795
    Westminster, MD
    Doesn't the state already do that with on-line Hunter Safety training?
    My son and I took hunter safety in Feb or March. I don't know if it is subsidized, but we had to pay and had a 90-day window to complete it before it expired and we would have to pay again.
     

    jc1240

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 18, 2013
    14,795
    Westminster, MD
    Well, i just signed up for my 1st Amendment training. It is $500. I have to get fingerprinted, picture, and then if I want to protest, I will be having seven day waiting periods every time I want to protest, you know to make sure I have a cooler head. Also, I have to give references

    Smh
    Did you have to take a shouting qualification test? ;)
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    While this is good for training it is not what Md says. If you didn’t pass the NRA qual on day one it would not stop you from passing the Md qual on the second.

    Instructors need to stop “Frankensteining” these classes and create a curriculum and course that can fill 16 hours productively. If they can’t then they shouldn’t be instructing.

    Yes, the state could provide a curriculum and lesson plans etc. but that doesn’t mean it would be taught correctly. Teaching is not an easy thing anyone can just do.

    TD
    In the example I gave, the instructor never said, "don't come back...". To your point, 16 hours is 16 hours. If Md can't come up with a curriculum, then F' them! The 16 hrs is completely arbitrary. Don't think that coming up with 16 hrs of curriculum is what is necessary to deem a W&C participant worthy. Who's to say? At what point do commercial instructors become law enforcers? What's the old gov catch phrase? "No Governing Authority". It means there's a law with no spine. It's capricious at best. In 90% of the cases, it isn't warranted.

    Frankensteining? There is nothing to Frankenstein.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    It's not stupidity . It was intended to be an inconvenience and expense to discourage getting Permits . It works exactly as intended .

    Any transfer of practical skills and useful knowledge is strickly coincidental .

    To whatever extent that actual training was envisioned by the Crown , it was intended to be extremely basic . Seriously .

    One of the widespread Anti Gunner fantasies is the subsection of Blood in the Streets of : OMG ! Some Person that has never touched a gun before . could go out , and accidentally kill a school bus full of nuns .

    In many of their minds , they default to every person carrying a gun , is an idiot with zero knowledge , skill , or experience , who any second now is about to ACCIDENTALLY kill 50 innocent bystanders .

    They don't care about improving your split times , transitions , or switching multiple targets . They think they have to force you to learn to not shoot yourself , or the person standing next to you in the foot .
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    It's not stupidity . It was intended to be an inconvenience and expense to discourage getting Permits . It works exactly as intended .

    Any transfer of practical skills and useful knowledge is strickly coincidental .

    To whatever extent that actual training was envisioned by the Crown , it was intended to be extremely basic . Seriously .

    One of the widespread Anti Gunner fantasies is the subsection of Blood in the Streets of : OMG ! Some Person that has never touched a gun before . could go out , and accidentally kill a school bus full of nuns .

    In many of their minds , they default to every person carrying a gun , is an idiot with zero knowledge , skill , or experience , who any second now is about to ACCIDENTALLY kill 50 innocent bystanders .

    They don't care about improving your split times , transitions , or switching multiple targets . They think they have to force you to learn to not shoot yourself , or the person standing next to you in the foot .
    Well stated and to the point.
     

    chilipeppermaniac

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    So I'm waiting to hear back specifics but likely has to do with the time constraints.

    Mind you. we all agree this arbitrary roadblock is ludicrous and likely unconstitutional... its the path we must take for now.

    We all know the "lords" want us disarmed, so any chance they get they will come for us
    These are the life lessons we 2a Patriots, conservative citizens who's only hope to preserve our rights, need to drill into óur daily prep. Our Constitution, our Country our defenders of freedom, need to face the reality and be prepared to sniff out any and all subterfuge. Moles, rats, spies, bad actors, those who incite violence to entrap, groomers, pro victims, crooked elected officials, DOJ, MSP, MGA, BLM, Antifa, and of course foreign enemies who capitalize on the weaknesses of our defenses. My point is, we need to examine our weak points and FIX or replace the deficiencies. Kind of like the Trojan horse. We are being attacked daily by thousands, or millions of Trojan horses 24/7/365.
     
    Last edited:

    OMD6dawg

    Active Member
    No one here argues that training isnt good....
    Yeah, I didn’t see anyone say that dumb shit. We’re mostly seeing people complaining about being forced to do something that should do, especially if they know they aren’t proficient with something.

    Case in point: had a woman come by the range yesterday for some one on one practice and training. She has about 4 permits but isn’t still comfortable carrying. And I saw why. I went back to basics with proper grip and why it matters, drawing from holster, sight and target acquisition, shot placement and grouping, to field stripping and clearing failures.


    She learned a lot and will be coming back for more training. I’m glad she’s not out here willing to be a wild cowboy out in these MD streets. Training serves a purpose and anyone that decries it for any reason, is an jackass in my book.

    I’m almost positive that no one in here would want a doctor to operate on them that was just given a License without practicing and completing some form of certification.
     

    6-Pack

    NRA Life Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 17, 2013
    5,647
    Carroll Co.
    Well, i just signed up for my 1st Amendment training. It is $500. I have to get fingerprinted, picture, and then if I want to protest, I will be having seven day waiting periods every time I want to protest, you know to make sure I have a cooler head. Also, I have to give references

    Smh
    Yeah, wait 7 days for an additional protest, regardless of how many protests you already acquired and have readily available….
     

    chilipeppermaniac

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    I our class today there was a guy that was adamant he needed to leave, and should get credit, right after we got back in classroom after the qualification shooting. The instructors told him he could leave but he would not receive the certificate of completion.

    Dude was the only one in the class wearing a mask, I think he was a plant. :)
    It's a good bet he was possibly.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Yeah, I didn’t see anyone say that dumb shit. We’re mostly seeing people complaining about being forced to do something that should do, especially if they know they aren’t proficient with something.

    Case in point: had a woman come by the range yesterday for some one on one practice and training. She has about 4 permits but isn’t still comfortable carrying. And I saw why. I went back to basics with proper grip and why it matters, drawing from holster, sight and target acquisition, shot placement and grouping, to field stripping and clearing failures.


    She learned a lot and will be coming back for more training. I’m glad she’s not out here willing to be a wild cowboy out in these MD streets. Training serves a purpose and anyone that decries it for any reason, is an jackass in my book.

    I’m almost positive that no one in here would want a doctor to operate on them that was just given a License without practicing and completing some form of certification.
    I think people should train and seek training. I also strongly believe you should not be REQUIRED to train to exercise a constitutional right. If it doesn’t apply to the FIRST, it doesn’t apply to the SECOND.

    Show me THT that says otherwise.

    If you disagree, please tell me which tyrant is your favorite!
     

    Zaicran

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 26, 2010
    910
    Morganza, MD
    And those who confuse a privilege with an enumerated right are ignorant

    I may be required to get training to exercise a privilege.

    The same does not apply to an enumerated right. At least if it is to be constitutional

    Has MDS started a knitting and crochet forum?

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Agree.

    I remember when O’Malley compared the HQL to a drivers license. I lost my mind. One is a right, the other is a privilege. And I do NOT need to have a drivers license to buy a car…I need an ID. I DO NOT need a drivers license to own that car. I do NOT need a drivers license to operate that car on private property. The ONLY time I need a DL is to operate it on public roads.

    Morons who know nothing about guns think ownership is a privilege the government can control.

    We do not live in a democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic. In a Democracy, the rights of the majority are protected. In a Constitutional Republic the rights to the INDIVIDUAL are protect…thats me…and YOU. The Constituition of the United States sets the conditions by which we the people grant our consent to be governed. It’s the rule book elected officials must follow…

    MANY MAHY MANY Americans have forgotten this key point And have allowed our Government to get out of control.

    Prove me wrong.
     

    OMD6dawg

    Active Member
    small shot said:
    16 hours is clearly defined. If the instructor cuts corners and attendees stay silent then they are complicit.

    Many on here feel wronged with the whole idea of training. While everyone is entitled to their opinion mine differs. I do not want uneducated and inexperienced people carrying. Same logic applies people driving on the road and the requirement of a DL.”

    I find ironic and crazy that all the people crying about a little 16 hr “training” course are trained individuals. All the people that say it’s an “attack on the ‘poor’ inner city folks” and those are the same ones that have been signing up in droves to take the class and get additional training.

    I saw one person in here on a previous thread bitching about the same thing, and at least he had the testicular fortitude to admit that he was bitching about it because the fees all involved was a drain on his finances.
     

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