MSP Got one... Instructor caught cutting corners, permits invalidated.

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  • linkstate

    Member
    Jan 26, 2013
    529
    Howard County
    That's exactly it, MSP requires live instruction, either in person or live zoom. They used pre-recorded videos to deliver content.

    Gotcha. Thanks.

    The state says parts of the class can be done over the internet via zoom or similar, but it has to be live. They used a recorded session from how I take it.

    Example I could record a video of me teaching a class and put it on youtube. watching it would not qualify for taking the class even if it was exactly what I taught someone else.

    Wonder how much of their class time was watching a prerecorded video. Record once and rake in the cash...
     

    danimalw

    Active Member
    A
    Or up here in PA where outside of Philly 1 in 6 people are carrying with no training at all.

    Yet there are never any problems....
    Amen

    And I love the only minimal application fee, quick application and turn around time.

    I'm taking the MD class this weekend and it frosts me that it will cost ~$400 all in to take the class and apply for something that shouldn't be harder than the PA process. Plus I gotta give up a day of sitting in a treestand.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    14,827
    Outside the Gates
    I use the NRA Basic Pistol book and Personal Protection Outside The Home book (the new NRA CCW PowerPoint class is basically the same material) These, plus MD firearm law and the shooting qual, cover the subject matter required by the legislature with good enough depth to use up classroom time without filler. I strive to give my students as much of day 2 on the range as possible; warm up, practice, qual, then more advanced shooting and THINKING.

    As far as increasing the requirements for instructors, the requirements to be an NRA CCW instructor are significantly higher than the current MD QHIC requirement. I have been able to find 2 instructors that had the NRA CCW instructor certification and were as bad as any being criticized here. Raising that bar won't help anything; all it would do is decrease the pool of instructors and raise prices.

    Just testify in Annapolis AGAINST ALL TRAINING REQUIREMENTS. I have decided to set aside as much of my instructor income as possible to aid MSI in working against manditory training. I urge all other QHIC instructors on MDS to do likewise.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 22, 2009
    50,431
    Bel Air
    I use the NRA Basic Pistol book and Personal Protection Outside The Home book (the new NRA CCW PowerPoint class is basically the same material) These, plus MD firearm law and the shooting qual, cover the subject matter required by the legislature with good enough depth to use up classroom time without filler. I strive to give my students as much of day 2 on the range as possible; warm up, practice, qual, then more advanced shooting and THINKING.

    As far as increasing the requirements for instructors, the requirements to be an NRA CCW instructor are significantly higher than the current MD requirement. I have been able to find 2 instructors that had the NRA CCW instructor certification and were as bad as any being criticized here. Raising that bar won't help anything all it would do is decrease the pool of instructors and raise prices.

    Just testify in Annapolis AGAINST ALL TRAINING REQUIREMENTS. I have decided to set aside as much of my instructor income as possible to aid MSI in working against manditory training. I urge all other instructors on MDS to do likewise.
    You are a good man.

    People should WANT training. Fvck MD.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    51,865
    Not in Montgomery any longer
    16 hours won’t stop the freedom train. Slowed it down a little.

    No amount of hours will debar free men the use of arms

    Sic semper tyrannis


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited:

    6-Pack

    NRA Life Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 17, 2013
    4,671
    ☭ Maryland ☭
    16 hours won’t stop the freedom train. Slowed it down a little.

    No amount of hours will debar free men the use of arms

    Sic semper tyrannis


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Makes me carry more because I had to work harder for it. I make it a point to carry as much as possible.

    Need to get gas for the mower? Want some takeout and it’s a short drive? Going to the store to get stuff for a DIY oil change? I don’t care how inconvenient it is to load/unload all the time.
     

    BigWilly

    oK, nOw WhAt ?
    Mar 23, 2011
    470
    Dundalk
    Regarding the comments of some who are recommending suing the MSP for revoking the permits of those that got their training from instructors who provided less than the required hours. I would merely like to state two (2) facts. The MD State Police training form they signed and submitted with their application clearly states:

    # 1: INITIAL CERTIFICATION. THE APPLICANT LISTED ABOVE HAS RECEIVED A MINIMUM OF SIXTEEN (16) HOURS OF CLASSROOM TRAINING & QUALIFIED ON THE RANGE WITH A ________ REVOLVER/SEMI-AUTOMATIC HANDGUN.

    # 2: I DO HEREBY DECLARE AND AFFIRM UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY THAT I HAVE COMPLETED THE MINIMUM CURRICULUM OF INSTRUCTION IN THE TRAINING AND USE OF HANDGUNS AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE MARYLAND STATE POLICE, PURSUANT TO COMAR, SECTION 29.03.02.05 AND I SO INDICATE BY SIGNING BELOW IN THE DESIGNATED SPACE.

    I think they are fortunate to be given the opportunity to re-take the training to get their Wear & Carry permit. Perjury is a felony and, if charged and convicted, they could loose their gun rights under federal law. I would recommend that they think carefully before filing a civil suit. Just a thought.
    What about the people who did everything as needed and the instructor in a later class phoned it in and so they still lost their permit? That sounds like easily won lawsuit. But still who wants to go through all that after already jumping thru the hoops. It's like holding the son accountable for the sins of the father.

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,144
    I agree with your post. However, I stand by the question of why were all student's permits revoked- not just the ones on audit day? (This is my understanding of what happened)
    At a guess, because it was made clear to MSP that it was not a one time thing. But that the instructor had a history or pattern of cutting corners.

    Just guessing.
     

    Jed Clampett

    Collectively Rejected
    Oct 20, 2015
    567
    Makes me carry more because I had to work harder for it. I make it a point to carry as much as possible.

    Need to get gas for the mower? Want some takeout and it’s a short drive? Going to the store to get stuff for a DIY oil change? I don’t care how inconvenient it is to load/unload all the time.

    Same. Gun goes on me at 0530 and comes off me when my pants come off before shower and bed time. All day every day. Spent too many years going to and from without one. Glock 43 appendix has been working really well.
     

    scottyfz6

    Member
    Dec 22, 2018
    476
    I use the NRA Basic Pistol book and Personal Protection Outside The Home book (the new NRA CCW PowerPoint class is basically the same material) These, plus MD firearm law and the shooting qual, cover the subject matter required by the legislature with good enough depth to use up classroom time without filler. I strive to give my students as much of day 2 on the range as possible; warm up, practice, qual, then more advanced shooting and THINKING.
    I use the basic pistol and the ccw class as well. I dont have the ccw instructor yet ( but have the slides ). I will be taking that at some point in the next month or 2.

    I also tend to have a few fun things like retention practice. One guy wanted to see how long I could keep the gun in my holster. He had never seen a als holster before it was kind of funny.

    I pretty much spend 4 hours with each person on the range. And I make them run if they are capable to induce stress. 10 rounds in the gun, place the gun down or in a secure holster, run 10 yards away and back, shoot 1 round reholster then run the 10 yards again repeat until the mag is empty. its fun to see someone who shoots pretty well have their groups go to shit. I have also made them do 2 5 round mags, reloading goes to shit when they are breathing hard.
     

    csanc123

    Active Member
    Aug 26, 2009
    3,573
    Montgomery County
    I use the basic pistol and the ccw class as well. I dont have the ccw instructor yet ( but have the slides ). I will be taking that at some point in the next month or 2.

    I also tend to have a few fun things like retention practice. One guy wanted to see how long I could keep the gun in my holster. He had never seen a als holster before it was kind of funny.

    I pretty much spend 4 hours with each person on the range. And I make them run if they are capable to induce stress. 10 rounds in the gun, place the gun down or in a secure holster, run 10 yards away and back, shoot 1 round reholster then run the 10 yards again repeat until the mag is empty. its fun to see someone who shoots pretty well have their groups go to shit. I have also made them do 2 5 round mags, reloading goes to shit when they are breathing hard.
    On a serious note...please ensure your students sign liability forms...it will take one heart attack to make your world painful. I'm no hercules but I've witnessed folks at the range breath hard just from getting out their car...seriously.
     

    Zaicran

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 26, 2010
    380
    Morganza, MD
    Gotcha. Thanks.



    Wonder how much of their class time was watching a prerecorded video. Record once and rake in the cash...
    I have no sympathy for an ”instructor” who only wants to crank out as many students as possible for the $$ instead of focusing on quality training. (Regardless of constitutional requirement). The requirement for training is itself unconstitutional…but PTP is sure there to rape citizens and take their cash and they really dont care about actual training.

    Mr Tacticool only wants your money.


    I am not talking down to those instructors who genuinely are interested in actual training…those guys/gals are the backbone of the MD shooting community.


    If anyone wants to know …PM me…
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    14,827
    Outside the Gates
    I heard PTP's ads on WBAL radio, I'm guessing they spent a lot of money on a huge media blitz. Too bad they didn't put the same effort into reading comprehension on what MSPDL allows for remote class. It's almost suspicious that they were treated so "kindly" by MSP.
     

    TheWhiteBuffalo

    Not Impressed
    Dec 26, 2012
    1,174
    Hughesville, MD
    I have no sympathy for an ”instructor” who only wants to crank out as many students as possible for the $$ instead of focusing on quality training. (Regardless of constitutional requirement). The requirement for training is itself unconstitutional…but PTP is sure there to rape citizens and take their cash and they really dont care about actual training.

    Mr Tacticool only wants your money.


    I am not talking down to those instructors who genuinely are interested in actual training…those guys/gals are the backbone of the MD shooting community.


    If anyone wants to know …PM me…
    I heard PTP's ads on WBAL radio, I'm guessing they spent a lot of money on a huge media blitz. Too bad they didn't put the same effort into reading comprehension on what MSPDL allows for remote class. It's almost suspicious that they were treated so "kindly" by MSP.
    These observations are spot on. Ryan Gass, Mr. PTP Tacti-Fool, is a total fraud. He's only interested in building his brand and selling you PTP hoodies while becoming a Facebook and Tik-Tok influencer and personality. The guy is no friend to anyone on our side. He does more damage with his nonsense and brings the anti-crowd out in full force. He spends more time peddling hoodies, drink coozies and T-Shirts than he does actual training. The guy prefers to roll around in the dirt in an attempt to impress new gun owners on his amazing combat abilities.

    The guy is a joke.
     
    Last edited:

    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    26,004
    Wonder how much of their class time was watching a prerecorded video. Record once and rake in the cash...

    Not necessarily . Once upon a decade it was state of the art to record your own lectures . That would assure that you covered exactly the same points in exactly the same way for consistency . Instructor is still in the room , and has follow up and Q&A . This is for individual subjects , not a complete "class" .
     

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