MSP denials

[BurkeM]

I have to disagree based on my personal experiences.

And yes it would be a lawsuit if I was denied W&C considering I have my HQL and have made multiple purchases without having record expunged.

And yes Honesty on the applications is the best policy.

I certainly hope your application is reviewed and approved in due course. It's unfortunate that in my experience since 2013, numerous people have been approved (77R and HQL) and hung up due to a PBJ when they file for the HGP. We've coached numerous folks through the former HPRB and current Informal Review process successfully.

The common story? People who were arrested/charged and grated PBJ have unfortunately answered "no" to those questions on the HGP application often get set up for disapproval by MSP. Not because of the underlying charge, but for making a false statement on the application.

This is why I repeatedly recommend answering "Yes" to those questions, even if you have had an expungement.

 

[Preach]

I certainly hope your application is reviewed and approved in due course. It's unfortunate that in my experience since 2013, numerous people have been approved (77R and HQL) and hung up due to a PBJ when they file for the HGP. We've coached numerous folks through the former HPRB and current Informal Review process successfully.

The common story? People who were arrested/charged and grated PBJ have unfortunately answered "no" to those questions on the HGP application often get set up for disapproval by MSP. Not because of the underlying charge, but for making a false statement on the application.

This is why I repeatedly recommend answering "Yes" to those questions, even if you have had an expungement.

Why would they deny for something that is not a prohibitor ? I can see it happening if it is a prohibitor but not if it is not.
I do answer Yes to those questions. Those People that did not have it expunged should have answered Yes to those questions also. I would answer Yes even if it was expunged, just would not give any more info if MSP can't find anything because expungement was done correctly.
And I too hope my application is reviewed and approved as I have no Federal or State Prohibitors as per the list that MSP has on their website under FAQ.

 

[fishoholic]

Why would they deny for something that is not a prohibitor ? I can see it happening if it is a prohibitor but not if it is not.
I do answer Yes to those questions. Those People that did not have it expunged should have answered Yes to those questions also. I would answer Yes even if it was expunged, just would not give any more info if MSP can't find anything because expungement was done correctly.
And I too hope my application is reviewed and approved as I have no Federal or State Prohibitors as per the list that MSP has on their website under FAQ.

Laws - Statute Text

im sure the msp will make their own rules and i understand the moral side to it but law is law ...

 

[Preach]

Laws - Statute Text

im sure the msp will make their own rules and i understand the moral side to it but law is law ...

MSP for the most part follows rules as set forth to them. I personally have not had an issue with any purchases or my HQL or any of my CWPs. And you are correct the law is the law.

 

[Allen65]

MSP for the most part follows rules as set forth to them. I personally have not had an issue with any purchases or my HQL or any of my CWPs. And you are correct the law is the law.

MSP follows the rules, but the rule interpretations they are following come from the MDAG's Office. And they're anything but a neutral interpreter of state statutes.

 

[swinokur]

How many organizations define an SBR as both a handgun and a rifle

Beyond stupid


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[BurkeM]

Why would they deny for something that is not a prohibitor ?

As before, people who answer "yes" don't tend to have issues if they have no prohibiting convictions.

 

[beautifullos3r]

I'm sharing what the MSP and Attorney General consider to be a conviction. (Personally, I disagree with MSP's policy.)

People found innocent by a judge are not sentenced to Probation.

PBJ is a Sentence, and only issued by a judge after a defendant has entered a "Guilty" plea.

Maryland Criminal Procedure Article 6-220(b)(1)

When a defendant pleads guilty or nolo contendere or is found guilty of a crime, a court may stay the entering of judgment, defer further proceedings, and place the defendant on probation subject to reasonable conditions if:
(i) the court finds that the best interests of the defendant and the public welfare would be served; and
(ii) the defendant gives written consent after determination of guilt or acceptance of a nolo contendere plea.”

(2) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4) of this subsection, the conditions may include an order that the defendant:

(i) pay a fine or monetary penalty to the State or make restitution; or

(ii) participate in a rehabilitation program, the parks program, or a voluntary hospital program.

This is a terrible first post, but given how much this is coming up in various threads I felt like I had to share the following.
I emailed MSP today at 0941 today at the msp.handgunpermits@maryland.gov address to specifically ask if they considered probation before judgement a conviction. I was so specific as to ask if they want applicants to respond "yes" to the question of "Have you ever been CONVICTED for a violation of any criminal law?" when only having a PBJ in their criminal history.

They replied at 1157 the following, posted here fully unedited other than greeting me by my first name: "PBJ is not a conviction. It should be noted that on the questionnaire portion of the application it does give you space to explain the circumstances surrounding the incident."

I will go back to being a dedicated long time lurker now - not interested in the inevitable "Yeah, that's what they emailed YOU but it's not how they REALLY think" replies. Thanks!

 

[Burt Hammersmith]

This is a terrible first post, but given how much this is coming up in various threads I felt like I had to share the following.
I emailed MSP today at 0941 today at the msp.handgunpermits@maryland.gov address to specifically ask if they considered probation before judgement a conviction. I was so specific as to ask if they want applicants to respond "yes" to the question of "Have you ever been CONVICTED for a violation of any criminal law?" when only having a PBJ in their criminal history.

They replied at 1157 the following, posted here fully unedited other than greeting me by my first name: "PBJ is not a conviction. It should be noted that on the questionnaire portion of the application it does give you space to explain the circumstances surrounding the incident."

I will go back to being a dedicated long time lurker now - not interested in the inevitable "Yeah, that's what they emailed YOU but it's not how they REALLY think" replies. Thanks!

I wish they would have gave me the same response when I applied. They gave me the run around lawyer talk.

But on my application, submitted in early july, since approved, I listed Arrested/charged CDS Poss (etc) then in capital letters I put NOT CONVICTED, PBJ and the dates etc. Then no for have you ever been convicted of a crime.


So the repose from the MSP is consistent with how I filled out my application. Since expungement approved in early September.

 

[Boondock Saint]

It is stunning to me that someone fluent in the language could read the words "probation before judgment" and think it could possibly be considered a conviction.

 

[swinokur]

And continues to be wrong


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[Preach]

It is stunning to me that someone fluent in the language could read the words "probation before judgment" and think it could possibly be considered a conviction.

And continues to be wrong


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I am really starting to like you two.

And I do answer NO to have you ever been Convicted question. Yes to the others.

 

[swinokur]

I like you bro


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[Squaregrouper]

I am really starting to like you two.

And I do answer NO to have you ever been Convicted question. Yes to the others.

I had a DUI in 1999 (BAC 0.09) for which I received PBJ. I answered yes to the question about ever being arrested and no to the other questions. I received my W&C permit.
.
What is confusing in this thread is confusion about not being denied due to a PBJ, rather lying about it on the application and getting denied.

 

[Mark75H]

It is obvious that people are putting their opinions on this thread and they have never seen the application to know what the questions are.

 

[swinokur]

Really.? My permit was issued 7-20

Many here know perfectly what the questions are

We just have people here who continue to spew inaccurate info disguised as facts


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[BurkeM]

This is a terrible first post, but given how much this is coming up in various threads I felt like I had to share the following.
I emailed MSP today at 0941 today at the msp.handgunpermits@maryland.gov address to specifically ask if they considered probation before judgement a conviction. I was so specific as to ask if they want applicants to respond "yes" to the question of "Have you ever been CONVICTED for a violation of any criminal law?" when only having a PBJ in their criminal history.

They replied at 1157 the following, posted here fully unedited other than greeting me by my first name: "PBJ is not a conviction. It should be noted that on the questionnaire portion of the application it does give you space to explain the circumstances surrounding the incident."

I will go back to being a dedicated long time lurker now - not interested in the inevitable "Yeah, that's what they emailed YOU but it's not how they REALLY think" replies. Thanks!

I'm glad you confirmed. Perhaps they've been learning what Maryland law actually says.

 

[BurkeM]

I am really starting to like you two.

And I do answer NO to have you ever been Convicted question. Yes to the others.

I agree with Boondock- MSP should be treating PBJ as a non-prohibiting issue.

 

[Mark75H]

Really.? My permit was issued 7-20

Many here know perfectly what the questions are

We just have people here who continue to spew inaccurate info disguised as facts


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Certainly was not refering to you. Sorry if it connected to you in some way. I did not intend to quote you if you saw anything like that

 

[swinokur]

No worries bro


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