MSP denials

[swinokur]

Oh me too brother


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[scottyfz6]

Me three.

 

[swinokur]

Lol


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[Slackdaddy]

TMI !!!

 

[Sundazes]

There are a bunch off that suffer from the dreaded dicky doo...
Not to be confused with the never ending dunnlapps disease.

 

[DubleTap]

Im curious about something. If you have an HQL, Designated collector and have bought around 20 regulated firearms before and after 2013, would you think you would have issues with a few PBJs 1980s and 2001. ( No violence and all were misdemeanors) I have had no issues for about 20 years but this thread has me feeling a bit nervous.

I guess more simply put does the W&C check involve more scrutiny then HQL or buying a regulated FireArm?

 

[scottyfz6]

There are a bunch off that suffer from the dreaded dicky doo...
Not to be confused with the never ending dunnlapps disease.

I also suffer from oldmannoassitice.

 

[DubleTap]

And it’s also bad if your stomach sticks out further than your dickie do

It’s called dickie do disease


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[BurkeM]

So could you be denied if a spouse was prohibited due to a Non violent felony charge?

No.

 

[BurkeM]

So what happens if you put yes to a question and it really is no? Wouldn't that be the same thing? I.e. yes I was charged but nothing comes up in any searches they do is that grounds to deny?

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Your integrity will be appreciated, and not used against you if there is no court record of a prohibitive conviction.

You can’t be disapproved for an arrest that didn’t lead to a conviction, but you could be Disapproved for making a false statement if they find records that you failed to report. (Yes or no questions- “Have you EVER been arrested?”)

 

[BurkeM]

My brother that applied the same time as I is expecting to get denied now. He has never had anything listed in casesearch. I can confirm this. We just checked for shits and giggles and there is a peace order listed from 2002. Apparently 20 yrs ago he was served a peace order from a girl he dated a few times and he moved on. She called him stating she was preggo months later and asked for money. He obliged. When he asked how she was doing afterwards she stated she had a miscarriage. He asked for his money back and she freaked out. He left it alone. A few days later a peace order came for him. She claimed he choked her and threatened to shoot her with a gun. He was out of town when this was supposed to have happened and he was heading back to TX when the court date was set. He went to court to try to get it postponed due to his travel. They denied it. He asked again and it was denied. He called a lawyer who stated to just let it ride since it would only be a 30 day order and just move on. Apparently this was something she has done to several others.

Well 20 yrs later and it finally shows up. He is not sure why it was never in casesearch.

He answered no to the first question on the app since it was never on his record and he honestly moved on and forgot about it.

My brother is calm and never has a temper. He just walks away. He didn't even own a firearm until about 10 yrs after the peace order. He is freaking out at the moment as he didn't intend to answer incorrectly and is unsure of the consequences.

MSP has access to records that the public can’t see.

If it was a peace order, it’s not a domestic violence protection order.

If it expired 20 years ago, it’s not a prohibitive factor.

He should be fine.

 

[BurkeM]

If they said send it in to update it, then what's the issue?

Troopers will ALWAYS say to send in EVERYTHING whether you think it's needed or not. And that's not always the case. If you said you have a picture of what you were wearing, they would say send that in as well. I mean, it can't hurt, right?
They aren't checking any "extra" databases that aren't used for say an HQL/77R applicant. They aren't paying for resources outside the scope of CJIS.

I am of the thought that expungement means it never happened, that's why it gets expunged. Poof, it's gone.
There are others who would give a blood sample if they think it would help.
The having been arrested question to me is if you had an arrest that isn't settled, or something recent that may need attention.
OR catching a blatant lie. Like if you got arrested on the 10 of Sept., and submitted your app on the 20th, but answered no.

I don't think there's anything wrong with answering NO to the arrest if it's one's understand that an expungement means it's all gone and that's accepted procedure. But that's my .02

MSP has access to all law enforcement and court databases in MD, as well as all of the FBI databases.

The problem you don’t understand is simple- some court systems FAIL to actually send those expungement orders to all of the systems that record and track arrests. Many times, low paid court clerks never send expungement orders to the FBI, or DPSCS, or CJIS, or JIS, etc. That’s why MSP will find arrest and conviction arrests, police reports, booking photos, and all kinds of information in the various systems that don’t actually delete data.

If a PG county expungement order isn’t sent to the Sheriffs Office, the records at the jail remain available for MSP investigators. If the PC county clerk doesn’t send properly signed and sealed orders to the FBI in WV, that FBI data remains available forever.

MSP licensing division investigators know what to look for and where to find that data, if the Court staff fail to execute expungement orders fully and properly. And if the person arrested 2 to 50 years ago never actually filed the correct petition for expungement? Nothing gets deleted.

 

[BurkeM]

ok got my letter and the person they are referencing in this letter is not me ..the letter shows a charge for something in 1987 and i had just turned 13 and in a county i never lived in etc so what do you do if msp makes a mistake

Request an informal review.

It’s not unusual for MSP to make errors like this in the review, and fail to do the simple math.

 

[BurkeM]

that's what causes my confusion.... the nics does not comply with a state expungement, but the cjis did. I was under the impression they were both databases controlled by the FBI... i guess ill know for sure in a few weeks, because its getting close for me to be getting my nics check for the carry permit .

There is a CJIS that retains records for the FBI.

There is also a different CJIS that is a Maryland only database run by DPSCS.

A Maryland judge can issue an expungement order that may be obeyed by the DPSCS/CJIS, but the FBI/CJIS may ignore orders from a lowly state judge.

THIS is why we suggest saying “Yes” on the questions on the application, even if you have an expungement order. MSP will still see the FBI/CJIS record and immediately conclude that you lied.

 

[Garet Jax]

Oh me too brother


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Even when I had washboard abs, I still had the dickie do disease.

 

[BurkeM]

PBJ's for violence are not disqualifiers. Why do people keep saying this?

MSP and the Attorney General (Frosh) consider PBJ to be a CONVICTION.

Innocent people cannot be ordered to serve a period of probation.

PBJ requires a guilty plea in most Maryland courts, or the case goes to trial and a final judgment.

That’s State policy until someone takes the question to trial in a civil lawsuit.

 

[BurkeM]

Seems like some expungements in CJIS do not make it to NICS


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Exactly the problem.

 

[BurkeM]

I guess more simply put does the W&C check involve more scrutiny then HQL or buying a regulated FireArm?

Yes.

Remember - they have 90 days to search for records, when they only have 7 days for a 77R (and no fingerprint records).

 

[Harrys]

And it’s also bad if your stomach sticks out further than your dickie do

It’s called dickie do disease


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[Inigoes]

And it’s also bad if your stomach sticks out further than your dickie do

It’s called dickie do disease


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Another name is dun-lap disease.

The belly dun laps over the belt!