MGA proposing lead ammo ban for hunting

[Uncle Duke]

I practice with my deer rifles a lot too. Just not with my hunting ammo. Even reloads, it is a lot more expensive than just practicing with FMJ

Depends on your perspective. Me, I'm the polar opposite, especially with a rifle/ammo combo intended for live targets.

For me, loading FMJ in bolt gun ammo amounts to much of the cost, most all of the work, and less than optimal downrange performance. Not sure why I'd want to load ammo that will purposely and knowingly degrade my bolt action rifle performance. If cost is the primary consideration, I'd have to opt to shoot a bit less instead.

 

[Brickman301]

I practice with my deer rifles a lot too. Just not with my hunting ammo. Even reloads, it is a lot more expensive than just practicing with FMJ

Not for my main hunting rifle. I reload with bullets I cast myself. It makes it so much cheaper. My brother also hunts and practices with his cast hunting loads. Just this past weekend, I was working up cast bullet loads, for another rifle that my son will use in some areas this deer season.
See why I’m so opposed to this proposed “lead ban”?

 

[Slackdaddy]

Not for my main hunting rifle. I reload with bullets I cast myself. It makes it so much cheaper. My brother also hunts and practices with his cast hunting loads. Just this past weekend, I was working up cast bullet loads, for another rifle that my son will use in some areas this deer season.
See why I’m so opposed to this proposed “lead ban”?

Did you attend the hearing?
I have a 44m I plan on using this coming season,, and start to cast/load.

 

[Brickman301]

I

Did you attend the hearing?
I have a 44m I plan on using this coming season,, and start to cast/load.

I did not. I wish I knew about it sooner than I did, because I would have.
44mag is a great cartridge for cast bullets.
I hunt with cast bullets in 30-06 and 45-70, and all my muzzleloaders. This year, I’ll be adding 30-30, and 45 Colt to the list. Maybe even 450BM.

 

[Worsley]

Where do they think lead comes from?

 

[Slackdaddy]

Where do they think lead comes from?

"Republicans"

 

[MaxVO2]

This has nothing to do with Eagles and birds of prey, it’s just an excuse. If they really cared about them do you think they’d be for wind turbines?
They don’t give a fvck, it’s all just an excuse to get their foot in the door of banning ammo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

****Absolutely spot on.

 

[fabsroman]

What rifles/ speeds are we talking ?
Copper "works" when you get up over 2200 FPS on impact.

I and a majority of MD deer hunters are in the 1400-1800 fps range (Muzzle loader, shotgun slugs, SWC)

Well, the story I laid out was with a shotgun sabot. Probably a 50 yard shot and the Barnes X sabot went from right rear hindquarter to left front shoulder on this doe. I've used the same type Barnes bullet sabots in my muzzleloader too. Didn't seem to have a problem there either. I seriously doubt my muzzleloader or shotgun were pushing the sabots at 2,200+ fps.

I was about to go into the basement and start looking for the sabots and the expanded one that I recovered. Didn't really feel like doing it though. Luckily, I remembered that I had taken a pic of them a long time ago. Below is the sabot I recovered from the story above. To the left is the sabot that I use for my muzzleloader. Probably different nowadays since that was 15+ years ago. To the right is the shotgun shell sabot that was used in my slug gun to kill the deer in the story above.

As far as rifles are concerned, mostly used Barnes X bullets out of a .300 Win Mag. I pulled up my spreadsheet on loads and I was using the 150 grain Barnes XLC with 72 grains of IMR 4350. I don't have a velocity number in the spreadsheet and I don't feel like going in the basement and looking for the Barnes manual to get a velocity number. Guessing somewhere around 3,300 fps. Shot the buck in the picture below at about 70 yards. It was broadside, I hit it on the right front shoulder, broke both front shoulders, and it dropped right where it was standing.

 

[fabsroman]

I'll agree that there is no damn reason for the MGA to pass this law.

Where I disagree with some is that 100% copper bullets are not good for deer hunting. I think they are better than most lead core bullets. Now, 100% copper bullets are not the most budget friendly bullet for deer hunting.

I just read through the fiscal and policy note. There is no mention as to WHY this ban is needed. Exactly why does the MGA want to ban lead ammo for hunting deer and other animals.

Now, the fiscal and policy note does mention that this ban might lead to fewer people hunting, which might have an adverse effect on farmers because of crop destruction by deer, and it could have an effect on small businesses that cater to hunters.

The most important questions is always WHY. Eagles and other raptors are make a wonderful comeback, even without a ban on lead ammo. Just took this pic last week in my front yard.

 

[44man]

I'll agree that there is no damn reason for the MGA to pass this law.

Where I disagree with some is that 100% copper bullets are not good for deer hunting. I think they are better than most lead core bullets. Now, 100% copper bullets are not the most budget friendly bullet for deer hunting.

I just read through the fiscal and policy note. There is no mention as to WHY this ban is needed. Exactly why does the MGA want to ban lead ammo for hunting deer and other animals.

Now, the fiscal and policy note does mention that this ban might lead to fewer people hunting, which might have an adverse effect on farmers because of crop destruction by deer, and it could have an effect on small businesses that cater to hunters.

The most important questions is always WHY. Eagles and other raptors are make a wonderful comeback, even without a ban on lead ammo. Just took this pic last week in my front yard.

View attachment 457638

Great picture!!

In my opinion, so take it for what it’s worth, we know the why. The why is just to further their march to ban all guns. Just another slice of the cake.

They pass this and then are they going to ban my casting set up and my tons of soft lead and buckets and buckets of wheel weights I have gathered from construction jobs and where my son works over the years?

How will they police this? Are they coming to my house or farm to check? We have a range that has been a range for hundreds of years, or so we are told , are they coming to test the soil there?

I have no idea if they have a plan in place for any of this other than to just try and get rid of lead ammo and then make ammo to expensive for us to purchase and thereby make our guns useless and therefore not needed and then not allowed under the disguise of saving the animals from us nasty evil gun owners.

But that’s just my opinion

The MGA absolutely has a plan for us and they absolutely do not care about us or what we think.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Great picture!!

In my opinion, so take it for what it’s worth, we know the why. The why is just to further their march to ban all guns. Just another slice of the cake.

They pass this and then are they going to ban my casting set up and my tons of soft lead and buckets and buckets of wheel weights I have gathered from construction jobs and where my son works over the years?

How will they police this? Are they coming to my house or farm to check? We have a range that has been a range for hundreds of years, or so we are told , are they coming to test the soil there?

I have no idea if they have a plan in place for any of this other than to just try and get rid of lead ammo and then make ammo to expensive for us to purchase and thereby make our guns useless and therefore not needed and then not allowed under the disguise of saving the animals from us nasty evil gun owners.

But that’s just my opinion

The MGA absolutely has a plan for us and they absolutely do not care about us or what we think.

Spot on. And since California did it, the hive is swarming. Orgasmic....

This has no more to do with any environmental need than the man in the moon.

 

[lazarus]

Not for my main hunting rifle. I reload with bullets I cast myself. It makes it so much cheaper. My brother also hunts and practices with his cast hunting loads. Just this past weekend, I was working up cast bullet loads, for another rifle that my son will use in some areas this deer season.
See why I’m so opposed to this proposed “lead ban”?

I am 100% opposed to it too. All I said was it DOES make some sense for waterfowl hunting, even with the disadvantages that come along with it. For anything that isn't in wetlands, ponds, lakes, and water, no, it makes no sense.

Hell, lead should be allowed for hunting geese over fields. But that would be WAY too difficult to enforce if you could use lead some places you are hunting geese, but can't in others.

 

[lazarus]

Depends on your perspective. Me, I'm the polar opposite, especially with a rifle/ammo combo intended for live targets.

For me, loading FMJ in bolt gun ammo amounts to much of the cost, most all of the work, and less than optimal downrange performance. Not sure why I'd want to load ammo that will purposely and knowingly degrade my bolt action rifle performance. If cost is the primary consideration, I'd have to opt to shoot a bit less instead.

Since I am mostly shooting .224 and .308 caliber rifles, I can generally source FMJ bullets from 7-10 cents a bullet for .224 and 15-18 cents a bullet for .308. Anything like match bullets or expanding/hunting bullets are generally around 20-30 cents a bullet on the lower end for .224 and 30-50 cents a bullet for .308.

When you factor in my other costs, generally you are talking increasing price per finished round by around 40-70%. Sometimes less, sometimes more. I load a LOT of match bullets I get cheap. But I also load a heck of a lot of FMJ. More than match stuff.

Even for my 6.5 grendel. Though there usually I am maybe scoring FMJ/TMJ for around 20-24 cents a bullet and match for 24-30 cents a bullet. So there isn't nearly the kind of price delta associated between the two as there are for .224 and .308.

*These are mostly blems/seconds/pulls. I definitely source factory new unblemished stuff too, just not very much of it.

 

[fabsroman]

Great picture!!

In my opinion, so take it for what it’s worth, we know the why. The why is just to further their march to ban all guns. Just another slice of the cake.

They pass this and then are they going to ban my casting set up and my tons of soft lead and buckets and buckets of wheel weights I have gathered from construction jobs and where my son works over the years?

How will they police this? Are they coming to my house or farm to check? We have a range that has been a range for hundreds of years, or so we are told , are they coming to test the soil there?

I have no idea if they have a plan in place for any of this other than to just try and get rid of lead ammo and then make ammo to expensive for us to purchase and thereby make our guns useless and therefore not needed and then not allowed under the disguise of saving the animals from us nasty evil gun owners.

But that’s just my opinion

The MGA absolutely has a plan for us and they absolutely do not care about us or what we think.

I can tell you how they enforce it. It will be exactly how they enforce the non-toxic waterfowl laws. If you are in possession of lead ammo while hunting, you receive a citation. They are not testing the soil.

This law does not make it illegal to shoot lead for target practice, yet. If they make it illegal for target practice too, they enforce it the same way they enforce it for hunting. Show up at shooting ranges and if you are in possession of lead ammo, you receive a citation.

 

[44man]

I can tell you how they enforce it. It will be exactly how they enforce the non-toxic waterfowl laws. If you are in possession of lead ammo while hunting, you receive a citation. They are not testing the soil.

This law does not make it illegal to shoot lead for target practice, yet. If they make it illegal for target practice too, they enforce it the same way they enforce it for hunting. Show up at shooting ranges and if you are in possession of lead ammo, you receive a citation.

My farm soil has been tested many hundreds of times throughout the years, for the government, of course. Several times by the government because they didn’t like my nutrient management paperwork vrs my FSA paperwork and they thought they could catch me in a lie. They didn’t because I didn’t. They then audited all my FSA and mda paperwork including my nutrient management plan. Not so fun times lol. But again nothing came of it but had they tested that one field for lead I have no doubt that they would have found it since you can walk around out there after it’s Ben disced up and a rain has fallen and find spent bullets all over lol.

But my point is they already test soils without permission because they can lol. So I wouldn’t doubt they would if it came to that.

Either way it’s at a point that I won’t pay any attention to them anyways. Fvck em.

That was a cool picture.

 

[fabsroman]

My farm soil has been tested many hundreds of times throughout the years, for the government, of course. Several times by the government because they didn’t like my nutrient management paperwork vrs my FSA paperwork and they thought they could catch me in a lie. They didn’t because I didn’t. They then audited all my FSA and mda paperwork including my nutrient management plan. Not so fun times lol. But again nothing came of it but had they tested that one field for lead I have no doubt that they would have found it since you can walk around out there after it’s Ben disced up and a rain has fallen and find spent bullets all over lol.

But my point is they already test soils without permission because they can lol. So I wouldn’t doubt they would if it came to that.

Either way it’s at a point that I won’t pay any attention to them anyways. Fvck em.

That was a cool picture.

Yeah, that was a good day. Came back from my bank/dump/BJ's run to see an eagle circling and then land across the street from me. Another eagle was incoming, which I am guessing is the mate of the one that landed in the tree. As that other eagle was incoming, a hawk decided to attack it. Another hawk got into the action, which I am guessing is the mate of the hawk that started the melee, and then the eagle in the tree took off to join in. Sadly, I only had a 250mm lens on the camera, so I wasn't able to get a really good pic of the eagle in the tree. I was lucky that the battle ended up coming my way, right over my house.