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  • Occam

    Recovering Lurker
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    15,509
    Montgomery County
    The MD Wear & Carry Permit doesn't make a distinction between smokey and smokeless. That said, it'd be pretty crazy to use a black powder revolver as your concealed carry piece. If the question is asked because the prospective carrier is prohibited from owning a modern firearm, then that person is definitely going to be prohibited from concealed carry anyway. If the question is asked out of a romantic, nostalgic, or passionate interest and dedication to old school percussion cap revolvers - so passionate that a person allowed to carry a modern pistol is willing to bet their life on a wildly less reliable weapon - then I don't see a problem with it. But I see a lot of problems that could come from it.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    22,857
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    AFAIK, the Feds do not consider a BP pistol as a "gun", loaded or not. Inserting a conversion cylinder makes it one. Marylandistan most likely would consider a capped and loaded BP pistol as a "dangerous weapon" to deprive you of your civil rights. Note that uncapped is unloaded. As with anything to do with law in this legislative lunatic asylum, YMMV.
     

    smokey0118

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    28,632

    benton0311

    Member
    Feb 26, 2011
    358
    I remember researching this in-depth years ago but my memory is pretty fuzzy. If I recall, MD law, as with Federal law, does not consider a muzzleloader or other antiques an actual firearm, so firearms laws do not apply. However, since it is a weapon, it falls under the same dangerous weapon statute as daggers, bowie knives, brass knuckles etc. in that it cannot be carried concealed on the person. It can, however, be carried in a vehicle unloaded, and can be carried on the person loaded and not concealed (not applying firearms laws here because it legally is not one at a state or federal level). My takeaway was, if I needed a truck gun, I could theoretically have a BP revolver in a case with a separate loaded cylinder ready to go and not violate any laws. I could, then, if a situation arose where it was needed, legally load and carry the BP revolver unconcealed. In the event that it was decided that the revolver was carried loaded inside the vehicle, it falls under hunting statutes and the first offense is a citation.

    Again, memory is pretty fuzzy here and the theory involved some real tip-toeing around current laws to arrive at that conclusion. Might be way off base here.

    EDIT: I see Smokey0118 posted right as I started typing. That's how I remembered it: "It's the same as a fixed blade. It's a firearm, but not a handgun. As such, you should be able to legally open carry a cap and ball revolver, but you cannot conceal it."
     

    smokey0118

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    28,632
    I remember researching this in-depth years ago but my memory is pretty fuzzy. If I recall, MD law, as with Federal law, does not consider a muzzleloader or other antiques an actual firearm, so firearms laws do not apply. However, since it is a weapon, it falls under the same dangerous weapon statute as daggers, bowie knives, brass knuckles etc. in that it cannot be carried concealed on the person. It can, however, be carried in a vehicle unloaded, and can be carried on the person loaded and not concealed (not applying firearms laws here because it legally is not one at a state or federal level). My takeaway was, if I needed a truck gun, I could theoretically have a BP revolver in a case with a separate loaded cylinder ready to go and not violate any laws. I could, then, if a situation arose where it was needed, legally load and carry the BP revolver unconcealed. In the event that it was decided that the revolver was carried loaded inside the vehicle, it falls under hunting statutes and the first offense is a citation.

    Again, memory is pretty fuzzy here and the theory involved some real tip-toeing around current laws to arrive at that conclusion. Might be way off base here.

    EDIT: I see Smokey0118 posted right as I started typing. That's how I remembered it: "It's the same as a fixed blade. It's a firearm, but not a handgun. As such, you should be able to legally open carry a cap and ball revolver, but you cannot conceal it."

    After reading through state law, I'm not seeing firearms mentioned in the dangerous weapons section, except for stating that "weapon" doesn't mean "handgun". I remembered this coming up a bunch and it resulting in antique firearms being treated like a dangerous weapon, but they aren't mentioned within the dangerous weapon section of comar...soooo...? Concealed might be okay unless I'm missing something.
     

    Johnny5k

    Member
    Nov 24, 2020
    482
    Without too much detail, I knew a criminal defense lawyer who got a criminal off because he was caught carrying an antique firearm. I am not a lawyer, I can't even spell legal advice. I know nothing of the case particulars, except that it came up in court when another lawyer in the gallery saw the picture of the gun and said, I'snt that an antique? I can not ask, as the lawyer in question is no longer with us.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    9,451
    AFAIK, the Feds do not consider a BP pistol as a "gun", loaded or not. Inserting a conversion cylinder makes it one. Marylandistan most likely would consider a capped and loaded BP pistol as a "dangerous weapon" to deprive you of your civil rights. Note that uncapped is unloaded. As with anything to do with law in this legislative lunatic asylum, YMMV.

    It would be considered a deadly weapon. The same as a fixed blade knife. It is not legal to carry a concealed deadly weapon in Maryland with only a few exceptions, such as on your own property.

    You could carry a loaded black powder revolver in your car, so long as it wasn’t in reach, just like you could a fixed blade knife.

    A wear and carry permit would likely be viewed as okay carrying a loaded and concealed black powder revolver.

    In theory, you’d probably be okay carrying a loaded BP revolver OPENLY as Maryland doesn’t consider them handguns.

    But let me know how that goes…
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    9,451

    No. That’s not what the law says. You cannot demonstrate and carry a firearm. And if so informed by an officer of the law that a demonstration is in effect, you must remove said firearm at least 1,000 feet away. Unless it is your personal property you are on.

    If the firearm draws a crowd, that doesn’t suddenly make it illegal. The activity you have to be engaged in or OTHERS are engaged in is clearly spelled out in law on what constitutes a demonstration. And LEO also has to tell you such.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    9,451
    After reading through state law, I'm not seeing firearms mentioned in the dangerous weapons section, except for stating that "weapon" doesn't mean "handgun". I remembered this coming up a bunch and it resulting in antique firearms being treated like a dangerous weapon, but they aren't mentioned within the dangerous weapon section of comar...soooo...? Concealed might be okay unless I'm missing something.

    They aren’t specifically mentioned. However…

    Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku.

    (ii) "Weapon" does not include:

    1. a handgun; or

    2. a penknife without a switchblade.

    it does not say a weapon as defined is ONLY those things. It just says it includes it. Other items have been ruled deadly weapons in various court cases. It does give specific exception to a penknife without a switch blade (which under Maryland law is any folding knife) and specifically says a handgun isn’t considered a weapon under the law too.

    Though desperately there are other sections of COMAR restricting the carriage of a handgun.
     

    smokey0118

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    28,632
    No. That’s not what the law says. You cannot demonstrate and carry a firearm. And if so informed by an officer of the law that a demonstration is in effect, you must remove said firearm at least 1,000 feet away. Unless it is your personal property you are on.

    If the firearm draws a crowd, that doesn’t suddenly make it illegal. The activity you have to be engaged in or OTHERS are engaged in is clearly spelled out in law on what constitutes a demonstration. And LEO also has to tell you such.

    Yup, I was going off of this definition of demonstration and that exemption of antique firearms. I missed the part at the bottom requiring a LEO to inform you of the demonstration and tell you to leave. Thanks for the clarification.
     

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    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    25,063
    NO , you may NOT Conceal .

    Absent any other specific statutory provision , they are generally under the provisions of 4-101 . Similar to swords , axes , fixed blade knives , automatic knives , long guns, etc . Can not be concealed , can not be carried with intent to commit a crime . Case Law on 4-101 is varied in interpretation .

    The light bulb moment that pops up periodically is that in theory , you Can carry one Openly w/o Permit .

    The Wisdom of doing so is a different discussion .

    The notable statute that does explicitly include Antiques is the Use of Firearm in Commission of Crime of Violence .
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    22,857
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    NO , you may NOT Conceal .

    Absent any other specific statutory provision , they are generally under the provisions of 4-101 . Similar to swords , axes , fixed blade knives , automatic knives , long guns, etc . Can not be concealed , can not be carried with intent to commit a crime . Case Law on 4-101 is varied in interpretation .

    The light bulb moment that pops up periodically is that in theory , you Can carry one Openly w/o Permit .

    The Wisdom of doing so is a different discussion .

    The notable statute that does explicitly include Antiques is the Use of Firearm in Commission of Crime of Violence .

    EXACTLY! That part has been discussed in other threads many times. I for one am not going to do that unless SHTF events make it absolutely necessary. I'll just point to those threads for discussion...
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    9,451
    EXACTLY! That part has been discussed in other threads many times. I for one am not going to do that unless SHTF events make it absolutely necessary. I'll just point to those threads for discussion...

    If things have gotten bad enough to openly carry a muzzleloading pistol, just openly carry or concealed carry that regular handgun. Maryland has an exemption for transporting a handgun due to apprehended danger. Not sure if there has ever been case law on that. But “the shit has hit the fan” could probably be considered immediate fear for your or other’s life or safety.
     

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