Maryland CCW Application via MDSP Portal

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  • Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    15,389
    Outside the Gates
    IMHO, the standard 16 hour training requirement was set by someone in the General Assembly as a class for citizens who had ZERO handgun knowledge, skills, experience or marksmanship skills.

    MSP requires it for one reason- it’s required by law.

    There is another, more useful alternative. Take the NRA Basic Pistol Instructor course, or the USCCA instructor class. Become listed as an MSP QHIC and you achieve two objectives. 1) you become training exempt and 2) you become qualified to TEACH the 16 hr HGP course.


    Discussed at length in another thread.

    With the prerequisites it's likely the long way around. Before taking Pistol Instructor, one must take Pistol and BIT
     

    DC-W

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    25,292
    ️‍
    USCCA Concealed Carry and Home Defense instructor is another available route.
     

    gruntz03

    Member
    Jan 6, 2009
    622
    Lusby
    And the G&S part has been found unconstitutional. As long as you meet the other constitutional requirements of the 2013 law, you should get a permit. The MD law says the “Secretary shall Issue”.

    So if they can ignore Bruen, they can ignore any “smack down” that might be the result?
     

    pcfixer

    Active Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,492
    Marylandstan
    And the G&S part has been found unconstitutional. As long as you meet the other constitutional requirements of the 2013 law, you should get a permit. The MD law says the “Secretary shall Issue”.

    So if they can ignore Bruen, they can ignore any “smack down” that might be the result?

    About time to think about "Issue a contempt of Supreme Court Opinion to AG.
    Articles 129 and 215 of the Constitution .
    I'm not a lawyer. But think find ways to punish bad actors.
     

    jeffgall295

    Junior Member
    Jun 19, 2022
    59
    Rockville
    NY gov just said she doesn’t need number or data points to prove that lawful owners contribute to gun violence , what joke we are living


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    RickAbt1

    Junior Member
    Jun 23, 2022
    1
    Perry Hall
    It IS Whack , but it's not $1,000 .

    16hr Class - typically $350- $500
    Livescan fingerprints - typically $50- $75
    Application Fee - $75

    Total - typically $500 - $700 , a lot less if training exempt .
    Add $600-$800 for purchase of a gun small enough to carry without looking like Wyatt Earp. Because I never thought carry would come to pass in MD all of my pistols are full-sized! Lol
     

    Brute

    Unwitting Bystander
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2020
    604
    Laurel
    IMHO, the standard 16 hour training requirement was set by someone in the General Assembly as a class for citizens who had ZERO handgun knowledge, skills, experience or marksmanship skills.

    MSP requires it for one reason- it’s required by law.

    There is another, more useful alternative. Take the NRA Basic Pistol Instructor course, or the USCCA instructor class. Become listed as an MSP QHIC and you achieve two objectives. 1) you become training exempt and 2) you become qualified to TEACH the 16 hr HGP course.

    Thank you for taking the time to go back and reply to my post from last week. However the only thing that would probably interest me less than taking a 16 hour remedial course would be me teaching one. While others may take personal satisfaction in providing that service to the general public and doing good for the cause, I'm content just passing my knowledge on to my children and grandchildren.

    I will not be taking that class, no matter how cheap or even free, I won't be getting a permit unless those requirements change. There's a lot of people out there who are strong advocates for that training requirement. I don't know how many of them just genuinely believe it's necessary, have a financial interest they don't want to lose, are gatekeeping, or would be resentful that they did it "the right way" already and then the requirement gets dropped. I'll continue to take classes that feel relevant and/or interest me, even after moving to a permit-less carry state. Because I want to, not because I have to.
     

    dgapilot

    Member
    May 13, 2013
    646
    Frederick County
    I’m scheduled for a CCW class in a couple weeks. Don’t really end it as I have a DD256, but figured any training is good training! I have a side business that generates about 1/4 to 1/3 of my income. Given that the AG hadn’t made a determination yet, should I use the business, or rely on the Bren case and self defense? If I use the business, I keep hearing people submitting a business license. I have no such license, and none is required. The business is all done in my name as there is no liability benefit to an LLC or Corporation. My business bank account is a separate account, but still only in my, and my wife’s name. I could provide my Schedule C for several years to show the business is ongoing. Any idea what would be best on the application given the uncertain nature of the MD State Police and AG?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    ras_oscar

    Active Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,531
    I find the notion that Maryland is de facto constitutional carry state because they do not have a constitutional permit system in place to be intriguing. I have no intention of testing the idea, but to the Lawyers on the forum: does the CCW permit statute in COMAR have a severability clause? I have done a bit of reading on my HOA regulations and there is a paragraph that says something like"

    "if any portion of this regulation is adjudicated to be unenforcable, only that portion shall be unenforceable. All other provisions will remain in full force and effect"

    My understanding is that was added to HOA regs because some HOA regulations were being thrown out entirely because a particular clause was unenforcable.

    I can see MSP taking the current permitting process, deleting the G&S provisions and trucking on with everything else pending action from MGA in the next session. If, as stated above, MSP is still processing applications that include a G&S, its kinda what they're doing already with those applications.
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    5,701
    Anne Arundel County
    I find the notion that Maryland is de facto constitutional carry state because they do not have a constitutional permit system in place to be intriguing. I have no intention of testing the idea, but to the Lawyers on the forum: does the CCW permit statute in COMAR have a severability clause? I have done a bit of reading on my HOA regulations and there is a paragraph that says something like"

    "if any portion of this regulation is adjudicated to be unenforcable, only that portion shall be unenforceable. All other provisions will remain in full force and effect"

    My understanding is that was added to HOA regs because some HOA regulations were being thrown out entirely because a particular clause was unenforcable.

    I can see MSP taking the current permitting process, deleting the G&S provisions and trucking on with everything else pending action from MGA in the next session. If, as stated above, MSP is still processing applications that include a G&S, its kinda what they're doing already with those applications.
    The HOA regulations are a contract. Different kettle of fish from statutory severability.

    Courts presume severability with acts of a legislature. See:
    https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/387-396_Online.pdf

    If a presumption of severability didn't exist, the entire Maryland Public Safety Article would be at risk of being thrown out every time a portion of it was found unconstitutional.
     

    ras_oscar

    Active Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,531
    The HOA regulations are a contract. Different kettle of fish from statutory severability.

    Courts presume severability with acts of a legislature. See:
    https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/387-396_Online.pdf

    If a presumption of severability didn't exist, the entire Maryland Public Safety Article would be at risk of being thrown out every time a portion of it was found unconstitutional.
    Ok, which means that MD does presently have a properly enacted concealed carry permitting regulation. How can they logically choose to pause on issuing permits until they receive direction? They could process ALL applications in the order received and just ignore the unconstitutional G&S portions of the application.
     

    Allen65

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    5,701
    Anne Arundel County
    Ok, which means that MD does presently have a properly enacted concealed carry permitting regulation. How can they logically choose to pause on issuing permits until they receive direction? They could process ALL applications in the order received and just ignore the unconstitutional G&S portions of the application.
    U don't think they've stopped processing all permits, they're just holding the ones that don't assert a G&S reason. There are still pre-Bruen applications in the pipeline.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,103
    Actually the law says
    § 5-306. Qualifications for permit
    In general
    (a) Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a person who the Secretary finds:…..

    REASONABLE TIME!


    Sent from an undisclosed location.
    By law, after waiting 90 days, the applicant has the option of going to the Office of Administrative Hearings. See MD Code, Public Safety, § 5-312(a)(2). Attached. That's where the 90 days limit comes into play.
     

    Attachments

    • 5-312 Action by Board.pdf
      114.8 KB · Views: 47

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    24,178
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    About time to think about "Issue a contempt of Supreme Court Opinion to AG.
    Articles 129 and 215 of the Constitution .
    I'm not a lawyer. But think find ways to punish bad actors.
    You're correct. Bidet's DOJ enforces the violation after a complaint (referral) is received.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    24,178
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    ...I can see MSP taking the current permitting process, deleting the G&S provisions and trucking on with everything else pending action from MGA in the next session. If, as stated above, MSP is still processing applications that include a G&S, its kinda what they're doing already with those applications.
    For everyone's edification:

    Sgt. Pickle stated in the Zoom meeting that the MSP LD is processing applications that include G&S as usual, as these are unaffected under current MD State law (which they are sworn to follow, BTW).

    They are holding applications without G&S until Herr Frosh issues "guidance" on how to proceed.

    He OPINED that the guidance would be to drop the G&S requirement and follow all the rest as prescribed by law until the MGA could write amended or new laws. Note that this is his PERSONAL OPINION only, but he hinted several times that he is privy to off-the-record deliberative discussions that are NOT public. THIS IS IN NO WAY OFFICIAL AG OR MSP POLICY, JUST SCUTTLEBUTT RIGHT NOW.

    Take that for what you will and act accordingly. Any way you slice it there will be a tremendous backlog of "non-G&S applications" to be processed once the guidance is issued. Logic dictates that these will be dealt with concurrently with "current legally-compliant applications" processing, so expect delays, long delays and absurdly long delays as their resources are strained to the max and more, because there will most probably be two processing streams in the LD.

    And remember the last time there was a logjam like this, a variety of competent and semi-competent outside resources were brought in to process the backlogged stuff with leaks, lawsuits and breakdowns as a result.
     
    Last edited:

    beetles

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 19, 2021
    535
    ". . . I have done a bit of reading on my HOA regulations and there is a paragraph that says something like"

    "if any portion of this regulation is adjudicated to be unenforcable, only that portion shall be unenforceable. All other provisions will remain in full force and effect"

    My understanding is that was added to HOA regs because some HOA regulations were being thrown out entirely because a particular clause was unenforcable."
    Terms like that are mainly bluster. If an adjudicating tribunal (court, special master, arbitrator) decides that an entire paragraph is unenforceable because some terms within are unenforceable, it isn't the privilege of the HOA to decide otherwise.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    The Federal Government absolutely does have authority over state government employees and officials who violate Federal laws. There have thousands of convictions of state officials nationwide over the years for acts conducted under color of state law like wire fraud, civil rights violations, conspiracy, bank fraud, criminal contempt of court, and the list goes on.
    By all means- call the Baltimore office of the FBI and report your concerns. You’ll need to cite exactly which law that the Attorney General and State Police are violating.

    Don’t expect them to raid Frosh’s home and office, or to round up Superintendent Jones and First Sgt Pickle for any of the allegations above.
     

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