Luck of the Irish? Star Model A Carbine

[mawkie]

-It's the time of the year for soda bread in my Irish heritage household as we come up on St Patrick's day. And in keeping with tradition the luck of the Irish was with me recently as I stumbled onto something super neat.
-As most often it starts with an auction listing: "Star 1911 Automatic 9mm". At first you'd think a typical Model B or Super. But a look at the first photo got me hooked: a tangent sight! That means one thing on a Star: Model A Carbine. But the barrel was standard length and it was marked 9 m/m on the slide. Huh? Grips were nice hand-made wooden examples. But the rest of the pistol was in good condition.
-So now to see if I could figure out what this puppy was. Zilch on the web. And I mean NOTHING. So I grab Leo Antaris' Star Firearms and dig deep. Finally found my answer buried on pg 412 in the Shoulder Stocked and Selective Fire Pistols chapter...
As previously mentioned, the vast majority of guns were chambered for the 7.63 Mauser cartridge and completed with a 160mm (most common), 180mm or 200mm length barrel. A much smaller number of Model A carbines were chambered for the 9mm Largo (Bergmann) and relatively few pistols were purchased with 105mm and 130mm barrels."
-So what was listed was a Model A Carbine in 9mm Largo with a 105mm barrel. Something I'd never seen. Hell, even Antaris didn't have a photo in his magnificent reference work. With only about 5,000 Model A Carbines built in total the number configured like this one had to be tiny.
-Antaris has a very comprehensive SN list for the Model As and the SN for this one fell into a group of 300 examples chambered in 7.63mm with 180mm barrels, built in August of 1928. My best guess is that it was most likely built to order as a period advertisement for the Model A stated "The pistol can be made also for the 9m/m Bergmann and 45 Colt American cartridge". The Model A Carbine was never chambered for .45ACP, that was handled by the Model P slotted for a shoulder stock. With the vast majority of Model A Carbines ended up being exported to the Orient, chambered in the very popular 7.63mm Mauser cartridge, I'm also guessing that this one stayed in Spain. Can't see how anyone in China would want a pistol chambered in 9mm Bergmann with the country awash in 7.63 Mauser ammo used in C96s and Astra M900s.
-So now I know exactly what I'm looking at and knowing that a Model A Carbine brings decent money I put in a strong bid. In the end it wasn't necessary as there was only one counter minor counter bid. Not sure how the David Rachwals of the world missed this one but my Irish luck held and it was mine for a Mawkie price™.
-She showed up today, with spare mag and the replacement grips. But even more luck was on my side as I had an original pair of Model A grips in the spares bin. A minor crack and tiny chip on the right side but that was it. Now she looks close to correct as she left the factory in 1928. The only difference being that the original carbine grips don't have the STAR name on them, just "Trademark".
-Not so sure that my luck will hold when it comes to finding a proper shoulder stock for it. I've been looking for nearly 10 yrs now, after getting my 7.63 Mauser Model A Carbine, and so far no joy. Only finding the newer Model M stocks which don't fit the Model As. But who knows, just might get lucky after all!

​

 

[somd_mustangs]

That is one fantastic Star!
If you get a chance could you do a couple of comparison pics with the 7.63 slide -> the rear sight and the ejection port?
It looks like the sight might be the same, graduated out to 1000m. Probably have to shoot at a 45 degree elevation LOL.

 

[G O B]

Likely 9x23. A lighter load than a 9x19.

 

[chriskat]

Very cool, do you have the stock?

 

[mawkie]

Very cool, do you have the stock?

Sadly no. Have both the 7.63 Mauser version and this one but have had zero luck finding a stock. Me thinks there's probably 4-5 pistols for every stock out there. Definitely not as easy to find as a C96 stock.

 

[mawkie]

That is one fantastic Star!
If you get a chance could you do a couple of comparison pics with the 7.63 slide -> the rear sight and the ejection port?
It looks like the sight might be the same, graduated out to 1000m. Probably have to shoot at a 45 degree elevation LOL.

Will do. Have to dig deep into the safe cause I know it's buried. Have family visiting with me this weekend so after they head home later. Will be interesting to see the subtle differences. I'm pretty sure the rear sights are different but not a surprise with the multiple changes that went on with them over the production run. Kinda odd that Star would make 4 changes to that sight with just 5,000 built.

 

[mawkie]

-For somd@mustangs. The older 7.63 Mauser example is Type III looking at the sight. Sadly the SN was obliterated so I can't definitively lock down the production date. The newer 9mm Bergmann is Type 4 and definitely has a different shaped ejection port.

 

[mawkie]

It was brought to my attention (don't know how I missed it) that the 9mm marking on the slide is an overstamp of the original 7.63mm. Which makes sense. At that time the vast majority of A Carbines were being exported to China so any single orders for 9mm Bergmann would entail pulling a unit from production, replacing the barrel, and then remarking the slide accordingly. It does leave the different shape of the ejection port on this latter built A. Not sure if that was a feature of all later As or if it was modified as needed for just the 9mm Bergmann.

 

[somd_mustangs]

The shape of the ejection port is really unusual to my eye. The standard Model A in 9x23 isn't cut like that. I'll have to dig the Model A carbine (1928) and a Model 1931 out and compare the opening dimensions, and chamber dimensions. For all intents and purposes 1928 was the last year for the Model A carbine, so I don't think the 7.63 version would have changed the production shape. The more I think about it, the question of why they'd need to clearance the port for 9x23 comes to mind. But that's where some comparison work with some calipers is in order. The case length on the 7.63 is 25 mm, 9x23 is not surprisingly 23 mm, although the mouth opening is of course wider on the Bergmann/Largo case.
'Tis curious.

For what it's worth Model A carbine A56xx (c. 1928) is cut like your 7.63 Model A on the top.

Early (1921/22) Model A in 9x23:

Model 1931 (Guardia version of the Model A) c. 1930's (crappy pic, sorry, but it's the same as the earlier Model A).

Model A c. 1952:

 

[BFMIN]

Relieved port to prevent case mouth dings?

 

[Subgunner]

So as the guy who pointed out the overstamp, I thought I'd jump in with a couple other thoughts...before I saw the photos above confirming the overstamp, I went back and fotth with Mawkie a bit about the SN and came around to his theory that this pistol could have been pulled from a block of 7.63 destined for a different shipment. The fact that I didn't see any Model A carbines listed in the Antaris SN tables as 9mm Bergmann/Largo appeared to corroborate that theory in my mind. But then I realized that I was looking at the tables wrong (through the carbine lense, not the Model A lense). In other words, the vast majority of all Model As were made in 9mm Largo so of course the Model A Carbines in Bergmann aren't going to be labeled as such, they are just going to be listed as any other Model A but with the "(S)" designation to indicate it's a stocked pistol (see p. 340 in Antaris). And there are several examples of single pistols being listed as a Model A w/stock. So I don't think the pistol in question was originally pulled from a block of 7.63 at it's inception and turned into a 9mm Bergmann caliber pistol prior to its initial shipment. If it was, why wouldn't the factory have recorded that SN as a stocked Model A like the others? No reason to leave it listed in the ledger as a 7.63 going to destination X if it were actually a 9mm Bergmann going to destination Y. To me it makes more sense that it was originally shipped as a 7.63 and later returned to the factory and reworked in a 9mm. Anyway, as I originally said to Mawkie, I'm not trying rain on anyone's parade, I just love researching old Stars.