Loosening Pockets- Change Primer Brand?

[Squaregrouper]

I hand prime all my rifle loads so I can get a feel for cases whose primer pockets are loosening and I label them in a separate baggie. My low tech method involves switching over to Winchester primers for those cases to milk out a few more loads. Winchester primers always seemed tougher to prime and a little Google-Fu confirmed they are slightly wider than CCI primers.
My question is... I have a very nice precision load for one of my 6.5 Creedmoors that uses CCI LRP. All of my load work ups have used the same primer. If I switched to Winchester LRP (standard and magnum loads) would there be enough difference to significantly affect my shots beyond 600yds?

 

[4g64loser]

No way to know for sure but to try it and paper test/chrono. Don't own a creed but one of my 308s gives not a darn what I prime it with practically speaking. Absolute best results (single digit ES) with fed 210. Cci and wolf both kept it under 20 ES and average velocity was the same within 5-10fps.

My 260s seem more sensitive to primers and I stick to cci for them.

 

[teratos]

Blue Loctite

 

[Squaregrouper]

Blue Loctite

I thought Superglue was the preferred method.

 

[Park ranger]

Fo

I thought Superglue was the preferred method.

For one more shot, I've done that. But that was for different reasons in better times. I'd say use the Winchester primers. Barrel erosion and bullets Lot to lot differences make primers just noise in the equations.

What brass, BTW?

 

[Squaregrouper]

Fo

For one more shot, I've done that. But that was for different reasons in better times. I'd say use the Winchester primers. Barrel erosion and bullets Lot to lot differences make primers just noise in the equations.

What brass, BTW?

6.5 CM Prime/Norma Brass is what I have a really good load for.
Prime brass, CCI #200, 42.4gr H4350, 140gr ELD-M, 2.830" OAL out of a Bergara B-14 BMP (Full Chassis). I get 2750fps with a SD of 6fps.

 

[Park ranger]

Nice. I got some of that prime brass too. I found when I switched from Hornaday brass to prime, the load still worked.

42.2 H4350 , 140 berger hybrid, BR2, 2.880". 30" bartlien barrel. 2880 fps (longer barrel)

I say switch primers if you must, bet it still works tight!

Edit to say : FJB

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

6.5 CM Prime/Norma Brass is what I have a really good load for.
Prime brass, CCI #200, 42.4gr H4350, 140gr ELD-M, 2.830" OAL out of a Bergara B-14 BMP (Full Chassis). I get 2750fps with a SD of 6fps.

SG,, Great looking pups. Looks like a good plan you have for priming.

 

[4g64loser]

I'm pretty sure that prime ammo uses RUAG brass, not norma. Norma brass is usually softer.

 

[Park ranger]

When I bought my prime brass from midway a few years back. It was definitely listed as Norma with a prime headstamp. Yup, link to prove.

Norma 6.5 Creedmoor Brass Box of 240 (Bulk Packaged)

MidwayUSA has made a special purchase on premium Norma brass with “Prime” headstamp originally made for an ammo manufacturer. This Norma...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[4g64loser]

Here are Both Sides of the PRIME/RUAG Dispute - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ People have been throwing links to this video statement from PRIME Ammunition at us for a couple of days. PRIME has apparently been in a protracted dispute with their primary supplier, RUAG Ammotec, for some time now. A dispute that has broken out into public view...

www-thetruthaboutguns-com.cdn.ampproject.org

RUAG ammotec owns norma. It seems that you are correct that this older brass was norma with prime headstamp. I have some prime stamped 308 that I compared with norma and abm (also known to be norma) stamped cases and it's definitely different in weight and case head hardness. It weighs out identical to the old T headstamp (RUAG) 308 match cases. The case heads also seem much harder, as the abm/norma stuff gets ejector flow marks at lower speeds than the old prime/T headstamp. I used speed to compare as the internal volume differential makes charge weight a false comparator.

The new prime stuff is Peterson (huge improvement). The Peterson large primer 308 is tougher than some of their competitors small primer (Palma) brass. I'm purposely trying to wreck 50pcs of the small primer 308 currently by loading it hot. So far I have over ten loads on the cases (155 palmas at 2975avg from a 24" bbl).

 

[lazarus]

I don't have any personal experience with it, but I've been reading and watching a ton of stuff on primers. And from what I can glean from other people's stuff...

It might. It also might not. More likely that you can find ONE primer that load doesn't like than it is that a primer switch is likely to change things a lot. Now it is likely to change things a little. 600+yds, yeah I'd expect you'd notice at least a small change. But a lot of primer tests I've seen seem to have well under 1MOA shifts and might impact SD/ES a small amount and group sizes by 5-10% one way or another (or even less). Certainly something to chase for ultimate accuracy if you are a competitive shooter. Probably not a whole lot to worry about other than the typical be safe and reduce your load by 1-2gr and work back up and just make sure you note any POI shifts and data for when you are loading it just to be absolutely sure.

My 2 cents, I don't bother too work back up pistol rounds if I am changing primers unless it is something I am loading HOT. Like a near/at max/+P JHP. Otherwise I am not going to worry about a small change in pressure or POI when it is already well in to the safe range of pressures. Now, I might not load 1000 rounds with a primer I haven't tried with that load in my life. But I'd feel very confident loading up 50-100 rounds without changing anything else and just double checking some spent cases for anything untoward.

Rifle rounds for plinking I wouldn't either. For example, my 62gr .223 loads are already a couple grains under max of CFE223. I would probably only load 20 rounds and check them first. But I wouldn't worry too much about starting with a reduced load and moving up.

My 6.5 Grendel loads I'd reduce for sure as I run most of them within a grain of the max published loads. I am sure my Howa could take it as I see plenty of people running a grain or two (or three) OVER max loads in Howas in 6.5 Grendel (stronger bolt than an AR). But since I also run these in my 6.5 ARs....I want to be dutifully careful to keep from cracking a bolt or injuring myself or others (and I am not willing to load over max for a custom Howa load. I am not shooting 1000+Yds, or even 600, with it where I'd really notice an extra 50 or 100fps. I'd rather prolong the life if the gun and brass)).