Long gun Carry

[daNattyFatty]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but probable cause is nothing more then their opinion sometimes correct? If you look like you may be up to no good to them, isn't that probable cause? I think in many cases it would be your opinion they don't and their opinion they do.

You're correct about probable cause being more than their opinion. They only need reasonable articulable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot to stop someone. What you described is building up to reasonable articulable suspicion.

Probable cause is a 51% (or more, depending on the evidence they have) certainty that someone committed a crime.

 

[rem87062597]

Can US v Black have any bearing on this? Sorry for the formatting, I copy pasted from the decision.

"More importantly, where a state permits individuals to
openly carry firearms, the exercise of this right, without more,
cannot justify an investigatory detention. Permitting such a
justification would eviscerate Fourth Amendment protections
for lawfully armed individuals in those states. United States
v. King, 990 F.2d 1552, 1559 (10th Cir. 1993). Here, Troupe’s
lawful display of his lawfully possessed firearm cannot be the
justification for Troupe’s detention. See St. John v. McColley,
653 F. Supp. 2d 1155, 1161 (D.N.M. 2009) (finding no
reasonable suspicion where the plaintiff arrived at a movie
theater openly carrying a holstered handgun, an act which is
legal in the State of New Mexico.) That the officer had never
seen anyone in this particular division openly carry a weapon
also fails to justify reasonable suspicion. From our
understanding of the laws of North Carolina, its laws apply
uniformly and without exception in every single division, and
every part of the state. Thus, the officer’s observation is
irrational and fails to give rise to reasonable suspicion. To
hold otherwise would be to give the judicial imprimatur to the
dichotomy in the intrusion of constitutional protections."

PDF warning.

http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/Published/115084.p.pdf

You're correct about probable cause being more than their opinion. They only need reasonable articulable suspicion that criminal activity is afoot to stop someone. What you described is building up to reasonable articulable suspicion.

Probable cause is a 51% (or more, depending on the evidence they have) certainty that someone committed a crime.

If I'm right, CA4 precedent says that they can't even detain you. Detainment only requires reasonable suspicion, and this case says that legal open carry doesn't justify reasonable suspicion. Politely ask if you're being detained. They're legally obligated to say no. After that, you just walk away. If they say anything other than no they're legally wrong. Unless I'm wrong.

 

[daNattyFatty]

If I'm right, CA4 precedent says that they can't even detain you. Detainment only requires reasonable suspicion, and this case says that legal open carry doesn't justify reasonable suspicion. Politely ask if you're being detained. They're legally obligated to say no. After that, you just walk away. If they say anything other than no they're legally wrong. Unless I'm wrong.

No, you're right. However, where the problem comes in is, where an officer may have some solid reasonable suspicion, but the open carrier thinks it's bs.

 

[j1337]

.

 

[rem87062597]

No, you're right. However, where the problem comes in is, where an officer may have some solid reasonable suspicion, but the open carrier thinks it's bs.

That's where the fun begins. I'm not saying it'd be easy, but if an open carrier is legally in the right and an officer performs an illegal detainment I would assume that that's grounds for a winnable lawsuit.

Assuming this is legal and that they have no grounds for reasonable suspicion under laws not associated with long gun carry, the most we could lose is that they'll legislate away long gun carry. That's good, in my opinion, because it takes away a main talking point in the Woollard case, basically calling their bluff. I'm no constitutional scholar, but I also assume it would open them up to another lawsuit as well about the "bearing arms" part of the second amendment. Best case, we do this enough times and police eventually catch on that it's grounds for a lawsuit. If they do respond, just ask if you're being detained and then walk away while being polite. Or sue. At least we'll have long gun carry in that case regardless of the outcome of Woollard, because as of right now we don't have long gun carry because people are too scared to exercise the right.

I have two questions. First, is now really a good time? We have to think about Woollard. I don't want to hurt our chances there, that's bigger than this. Secondly, who has the balls to do it? If I had a year left to live I would, but I (hopefully) have way more.

 

[daNattyFatty]

That's where the fun begins. I'm not saying it'd be easy, but if an open carrier is legally in the right and an officer performs an illegal detainment I would assume that that's grounds for a winnable lawsuit.

Officers are responding to an armed robbery in progress. Suspect is a white male with a gun. That's all they have. One block away, a responding officer spots a white guy walking and carrying what looks like a gun. Guy gets detained, witnesses eventually say the dude isn't the robber.

Is that reasonable suspicion? You bet your ass it is.

Fun, indeed!

 

[rem87062597]

Officers are responding to an armed robbery in progress. Suspect is a white male with a gun. That's all they have. One block away, a responding officer spots a white guy walking and carrying what looks like a gun. Guy gets detained, witnesses eventually say the dude isn't the robber.

Is that reasonable suspicion? You bet your ass it is.

Fun, indeed!

True, but it's a fluke. It'd end with no charges, just an inconvenience for the OCer.

We're acting like that person could make it ten steps off his/her property without someone calling the police, three steps depending on how evil the gun is.

 

[daNattyFatty]

True, but it's a fluke. It'd end with no charges, just an inconvenience for the OCer.

We're acting like that person could make it ten steps off his/her property without someone calling the police, three steps depending on how evil the gun is.

No argument there!

 

[dbow]

curious as to why no one has conducted a gun walk in MD? read as far as i could, sorry if this is a repost question.

 

[hvymax]

What if someone hosted an open carry meet and greet on private property within view of the public. If the each person participating in an open carry event had written permission from the property owner, no signs, just a couple hundred people meeting for coffee and doughnuts and open carrying on private property with written permission.

That'll be my Birthday Blastfest June 15th. Too bad I'm on a private road off the beaten path. We could try to invite media types though.

 

[Name Taken]

curious as to why no one has conducted a gun walk in MD? read as far as i could, sorry if this is a repost question.

Because no one wants to risk being arrested.

Just guessing.

 

[dbow]

I guess if i were to do something like this, i would call Sheriffs office for the okie dokie. I live a Carl (Carroll) county, prob could be done...

 

[tjv4163]

I guess if i were to do something like this, i would call Sheriffs office for the okie dokie. I live a Carl (Carroll) county, prob could be done...

also make sure its legal there.. Im sure it probably is but better to be safe then sorry not all of MD is this legal in.

 

[NRA-Benefactor]

Since I see them every day, I just asked a Cpl, Sgt, and a Capt. in PG county.

They said it is not legal to carry long gun open or concealed in MD....

You will be charged with possesion of a deadly weapon.

All these guys know me and told me don't do it.................

 

[Inigoes]

Since I see them every day, I just asked a Cpl, Sgt, and a Capt. in PG county.

There is your problem! PG police knowing the law, better than the Attorney General.

You can be charged for anything on any given day.

 

[GTOGUNNER]

Pg has deep pockets. Might be a good place to do it. I have property there. These aren't the same cops that beat the U of Mr student up in college park? Idiots.