List of FFL's doing SN engraving

[foodpoison]

So if one has home built grandfathered now banned AK's, is there gonna be problem complying with this bs law our overlords passed? I have not seen this mentioned here or in the other thread. Oh asking for a friend

 

[Patattack88]

Hows this list coming. They said the contacted MANY FFLs all over the state (50+ In the press release) and said they could do this no PROBLEM! So far I only seen 2 and none of them are close or convenient to me. Luckily i lost all mine in this horrific boating accident I almost didn't make it!

 

[Kharn]

So how does it work if my original freehand Dremel engraving took up the entire serial plate?

Or something has no metal plate?

I'm leaning towards wait until it's almost the 2023 deadline before I do anything, too many opportunities for a DC style settlement allowing my existing serial numbers or another outcome.

 

[beetles]

So how does it work if my original freehand Dremel engraving took up the entire serial plate?

Or something has no metal plate?

I'm leaning towards wait until it's almost the 2023 deadline before I do anything, too many opportunities for a DC style settlement allowing my existing serial numbers or another outcome.

On the basis of what action do you envision a more favorable "settlement" occurring? That would take a lawsuit for injunctive relief that would come to settlement before the 1 March 2023 deadline (after which possession of the non-compliant article becomes a criminal offense, and a different pathway to favorable resolution might or might not occur.) Unlikely, that.

I would not count on a favorable settlement or other adjudication that vacates this statute. The will of the legislature was not equivocal. This issue of circulating unmarked unregistered frames doesn't carry the same weight of facts as Heller did.

If you are speaking of a real gun, take it to an engraver and see what can be done. You are positing different mutually-exclusive problems, a frame with a pre-engraved plate and one with no plate.

I suspect if you have a frame that cannot be engraved for lack of available engravable material, you will be left with the options of 1. destroying the article, 2. surrendering the article, 3. devising a way to permanently attach a metal plate to the frame that may then be engraved, 4. retaining the article in non-compliance and risking prosecution.

 

[INMY01TA]

I might have a lead on somewhere else that does firearms engraving. Hanover Armory in Hanover, MD. They do engraving but contacted them and they said they will do it but have been told by MSP to "wait for further guidance". I did try to contact MSP and while they were somewhat helpful, I think they too are waiting for clarification on this law. Just kinda got the run around and basically sent me the law to read. Very confusing language cause they omitted language in some parts and how it reads with the omitted language. For example, something to the effect "that the serial number should be three followed by another number". I basically couldn't get a yes or no about my reciever already being serialized. Honestly they should make an exception for it because some people do engrave their recievers and the ATF original stance was they reccomended it but wasn't required. I'd honestly wait on engraving until every one has figured it all out. No sense in paying money just to have to do it again cause it's wrong.

The 77R is a little confusing to fill out because it deals focuses on regulated weapons and handguns. And assumes it's a handgun and you need your HQL. My builds are not handguns nor regulated firearms.

I emailed them a couple months ago and they said they were not but that may have changed. They did say they sold serialized P80 frames for $130. Unless they do the engraving service cheaper than that may as well just buy their serialized frame and swap the parts.

 

[whistlersmother]

I emailed them a couple months ago and they said they were not but that may have changed. They did say they sold serialized P80 frames for $130. Unless they do the engraving service cheaper than that may as well just buy their serialized frame and swap the parts.

But that would require an HQL with its associated costs not to mention infringements.

 

[Mofiki]

don't you have a 30 day period after finishing the firearm to serialize it? in theory if its finished and you disassemble the firearm and rebuild it using a freshly printed frame/receiver restart the 30 day period? I dont own any 80%'s and will only be printing mine.

 

[jcutonilli]

don't you have a 30 day period after finishing the firearm to serialize it? in theory if its finished and you disassemble the firearm and rebuild it using a freshly printed frame/receiver restart the 30 day period? I dont own any 80%'s and will only be printing mine.

No, the new law (effective June 1) does not specify firearms with respect to the exception you are referring to .

Public Safety 5-703 (B)(1)(III) POSSESSION OF AN UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER BY A PERSON THAT MADE OR MANUFACTURED THE UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER, WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY PREFABRICATED PARTS, AND WHO IS NOT OTHERWISE PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING THE UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER, FOR A PERIOD NOT EXCEEDING 30 DAYS AFTER THE PERSON MADE OR MANUFACTURED THE UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER.

It specifies "UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER"

Public Safety 5-701 (H) “UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER” MEANS A FORGED, CAST, PRINTED, EXTRUDED, OR MACHINED BODY OR SIMILAR ARTICLE THAT:
(1) HAS REACHED A STAGE IN MANUFACTURE WHERE IT MAY READILY BE COMPLETED, ASSEMBLED, OR CONVERTED TO BE USED AS THE FRAME OR RECEIVER OF A FUNCTIONAL FIREARM

You have 30 days regardless of whether the "unfinished frame or receiver" is fully finished or assembled to get the "unfinished frame or receiver" serialized.

 

[Mofiki]

No, the new law (effective June 1) does not specify firearms with respect to the exception you are referring to .

Public Safety 5-703 (B)(1)(III) POSSESSION OF AN UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER BY A PERSON THAT MADE OR MANUFACTURED THE UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER, WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY PREFABRICATED PARTS, AND WHO IS NOT OTHERWISE PROHIBITED FROM POSSESSING THE UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER, FOR A PERIOD NOT EXCEEDING 30 DAYS AFTER THE PERSON MADE OR MANUFACTURED THE UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER.

It specifies "UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER"

Public Safety 5-701 (H) “UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER” MEANS A FORGED, CAST, PRINTED, EXTRUDED, OR MACHINED BODY OR SIMILAR ARTICLE THAT:
(1) HAS REACHED A STAGE IN MANUFACTURE WHERE IT MAY READILY BE COMPLETED, ASSEMBLED, OR CONVERTED TO BE USED AS THE FRAME OR RECEIVER OF A FUNCTIONAL FIREARM

You have 30 days regardless of whether the "unfinished frame or receiver" is fully finished or assembled to get the "unfinished frame or receiver" serialized.

Well damn with that definition we are going to need 2-3 serials for a roll of filament

 

[DWN]

If I can help, I am an FFL and I do compliant marking for the ATF rules. Frames, lowers, P80, suppressors
pistols etc.
I do the engraving for local gunsmiths and retailers. Let me know what you need.
DC Laser
14428 Marsh Pike
Hagerstown, MD 21742
240-620-5380

Thanks again.

 

[Mofiki]

If I can help, I am an FFL and I do compliant marking for the ATF rules. Frames, lowers, P80, suppressors
pistols etc.
I do the engraving for local gunsmiths and retailers. Let me know what you need.
DC Laser
14428 Marsh Pike
Hagerstown, MD 21742
240-620-5380

Thanks again.

Is it possible to engrave a printed frame/lower legally? Or would a metal plate be required to make it good?

 

[dannyp]

Is it possible to engrave a printed frame/lower legally? Or would a metal plate be required to make it good?

my question also , how can you engrave a p 80 ?

 

[teratos]

my question also , how can you engrave a p 80 ?

They have a metal plate integrated into the frame for engraving.

 

[whistlersmother]

Printed plastic frames need a metal plate and it needs to be designed such that its removal destroys the gun.

 

[RRomig]

Printed plastic frames need a metal plate and it needs to be designed such that its removal destroys the gun.

I’m not familiar with the second half of that sentence. Can you site the law. Is it part of the new laws coming out? I’ve never held a firearm that the removal of the SN would destroy it up to and including polymer framed.
Thanks

 

[whistlersmother]

I’m not familiar with the second half of that sentence. Can you site the law. Is it part of the new laws coming out? I’ve never held a firearm that the removal of the SN would destroy it up to and including polymer framed.
Thanks

18 USC 922(k) - I would say that removing the plate but keeping the gun operational keeps it as a firearm and thus illegal. Removing the plate which destroys the gun means its no longer a gun - sorta like melting it.

See also:

PSA: PlumCrazy Polymer Lowers ILLEGAL Says Letter from BATFE -

UPDATE APRIL 2016: PLEASE NOTE: The below article was written in 2014. CURRENT GENERATION PLUMCRAZY GEN II from E3 Arms and SUREFIRE INSTITUTE are fully compliant with BATFE. PlumCrazy was a brand of polymer AR-15 lower receivers that were manufactured by PCF Manufacturing until they...

www.thefirearmblog.com

And this, requiring steel plates in plastic: https://www.atf.gov/file/57906/download

 

[rbird7282]

I’m going to ask the FFL in Edgewater about it, MD kicked back one of my 77R’s because I put self-employed as an occupation lol. However, that worked for the carry permit … just jumping through the hoops.

Moral dilemma, I want to destroy my first AR because it just looks like shit, but will run like a boss! As a woodworker I have destroyed many products that simply didn’t make it through R&D so in that respect it’s toast. ??

Yeah you’re not allowed to use self-employed anymore…..I have no idea why. More stupid sh*t from MSP


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[RRomig]

Read that and also read up coming law. Don’t see anything it the law other than “permanently attached metal”. The quote in your reference wasn’t law just an opinion. All that said gluing a plate to the receiver ain’t going to work and removal = destroying also isn’t necessary. I think the biggest problem for the pistol guys is going to be having enough space on said plate for all the info required. Glad I don’t own any.

 

[RRomig]

Yeah you’re not allowed to use self-employed anymore…..I have no idea why. More stupid sh*t from MSP


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Self employed = Bad
Unemployed = Good
Only in MD could that be a real thing.

 

[rbird7282]

Self employed = Bad
Unemployed = Good
Only in MD could that be a real thing.

Lol, sad but true


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