Legal Question about 80% Lowers

[sst4270]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum and relatively new to gun ownership. Please pardon a brief introduction before the question.

I learned to shoot on a 22 plinker in the 70's by my dad who was a Vietnam Vet. Fired many firearms in the mean time. Purchased my first rifle last year, a 10/22. Heavily modified it and it is a dream to shoot. Fired my first AR back in April and was hooked. I had to have one so I purchased a complete lower (april 20) and it is sitting at the FFL in Glen Burnie probably until August. (Don't want to add fuel to that fire) Then I discovered 80% lowers. I have over 15 years of machining experience with manual mills, lathes, and CNC mills and I've built my own functioning CNC router... so the 80% lower will be relatively easy to complete. I've ordered a few. The first should arrive sometime in next couple of weeks.

This past weekend I was at Hawk Hill Custom in Virginia purchasing some accessories and told the salesman what I planned to build and he said something interesting to me. He stated that it was his understanding that if I built more than one (1) 80% lower that it would be considered manufacturing and I'd either have to have a firearms manufacturing license or I would need to serialize them AND get them transferred to my name through an FFL. I've read the ATF letters that have been posted regarding 80% lowers, and the text of the documents do not refer to a limit (unless I missed it).

So my question is this: Is there a limit legally on how many 80% lowers I can build strictly for my own personal use? I don't ever plan to sell them. I just want to build a few different configurations. 16", Pistol, maybe HBR...

My intent is to complete these builds prior to Oct 1 and meticulously document them.

If this is true then I'll simply sell the "paper weights" to someone else, but I'm hoping someone here can clear this up for me or direct me to someone who can.

Finally, if this is the wrong sub-forum for this post please direct me to the more appropriate place.

Regards,

Steve
Glen Burnie

 

[aireyc]

Don't have a definitive answer, but I would say you should be fine as long as you don't have intent to distribute. There is the concept of constructive possession, which basically means if you only have a lower and an SBR upper without a registered SBR lower, they could say you intended to build an SBR and charge you as such. I don't think they could argue this though as there's no rule that you can only have X number of guns, nor is there a rule that you can't have X number of stripped lowers.

 

[Sticky]

I am fairly certain that the law is written in such a way now as to not limit how many guns you can build for yourself in a given period of time... At least that's what my research found.

 

[dblas]

There is no limit on the number of firearms you can build for your own use.

 

[sst4270]

Thanks for the replies. That was my understanding of the "letter of the law". I thought it was odd that he would say that. Maybe a new salesman... or maybe fishing for me to buy some of his stuff since they do custom machining there...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sticky]

I have heard from others (but not read it printed anywhere), that if you sell more than one or two of your self built guns over a period of a year, that you are opening yourself up to potential 'manufacturing' issues, perhaps he was confused.. and I don't know if that is accurate or not. The law says that I can build and also (currently) that I can sell a self-built weapon if I tire of it..

 

[boatbod]

There are no hard and fast limits for either how many firearms you can make for yourself, or how many you can make and sell at some point in the future. The problem arises if you "make with the intent to sell" as that requires a manufacturing license from the BATF.

Basically if what you're doing can be described as a manufacturing operation, you're probably setting yourself up for a rough time should the ATF come calling. If you're just making for personal use, have at it!

 

[Pinecone]

Bottom line.

How would you feel having to defend what you did to a jury?

If you feel you can articulate how you are not a manufacturer, then you are goo d to go.

If you never sold one, IMO, you are not a manufacturer.

You build, sell, build, sell, etc, IMO you are a manufacturer.

Somewhere in between is where the cross over is.

 

[buzzsaw]

There are no hard and fast limits for either how many firearms you can make for yourself, or how many you can make and sell at some point in the future. The problem arises if you "make with the intent to sell" as that requires a manufacturing license from the BATF.

Basically if what you're doing can be described as a manufacturing operation, you're probably setting yourself up for a rough time should the ATF come calling. If you're just making for personal use, have at it!

It's nice and vague as these other guys have stated - if you start making and then distributing, you could potentially be thought of as a manufacturer by ATF. I read, also, the general rule of thumb is dont try SELLING more than one or two per year. I have my C&R (unused at this point) and even there they recommend not trying to cycle more than one or two through a personal collection per year or else you risk being thought of as a dealer.

 

[sst4270]

Again, thanks for the responses.

I see where the jist of these replies are going. Again my intent is to build these for myself. I figured that since I don't plan to move out of state and presuming the ban will likely go into effect I wanted to have now what I planned to have in the future... So presently I have zero intent to ever sell these. I've ordered three (including one of the polymer 80 lowers) and for me that will be more than enough. Furthermore once they're built if I'm not happy with one I wouldn't sell it. I'd simply re-configure it until I was happy with it. I guess being new to gun ownership I don't fully grasp why I'd sell something that I put so much time, effort, and money into building for myself. (other than if I needed quick cash at some point in the future)

I was really just curious if I'd missed something in my research regarding building a firearm for personal use. It seems that I haven't and that my understanding was right on the money. I shouldn't be popping up on any agency's radar.

Thanks guys for the insight and advice.

Steve

 

[Sticky]

Good luck with your builds Steve!!

I recently built 4 lowers, 3 are done and completed, one more to go in 300AAC and at least 1 more in 308... all by 10/1 and all I need for a while!

Next AR I build after that will be in a different state, most likely...