Kitchen knives stainless or carbon?

[joemac]

I'm about to spring for quality kitchen knives. I spend a lot of time in the kitchen and as I get more advanced my junky knives aren't cutting it.

I am looking at a 9" chef knife and have the option between 52100 and S35V. My Spyderco is S30V, which preceded S35V AFAIK and I really like this steel a lot. But with any decision there are tradeoffs. The 52100 can rust or at least discolor, but can it take an edge better or last longer? I want something that is razor sharp and holds the edge.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Not stainless.

Carbon mo better.

I love Damascus in the kitchen.

More care for carbon, still more care for Damascus. Worth every nickel and every minute.

 

[rj1974]

Not stainless.

Carbon mo better.

I love Damascus in the kitchen.

More care for carbon, still more care for Damascus. Worth every nickel and every minute.

 

[Shamr0ck]

Not all stainless are created the same some will be ok some wont.

High carbon blades will patina more than stainless and IMO are easier to keep sharp. If shiny silver blades are important, then stainless. If sharp, ease of sharpening are primary goals, go carbon steel, just be prepared for a patina to develop and need to keep the blades oiled. I use medical grade mineral ol to keep my blades rust free.

Plus - I never put my carbon blades in the dishwasher



---
Shamr0ck

 

[rbird7282]

Not all stainless are created the same some will be ok some wont.

High carbon blades will patina more than stainless and IMO are easier to keep sharp. If shiny silver blades are important, then stainless. If sharp, ease of sharpening are primary goals, go carbon steel, just be prepared for a patina to develop and need to keep the blades oiled. I use medical grade mineral ol to keep my blades rust free.

Plus - I never put my carbon blades in the dishwasher



---
Shamr0ck

I never put any good kitchen knife in the dishwasher....

 

[NickZac]

Depends on what you want to do. There are some 'high-hardness' stainless knives with hardness in the 60-62 range which are not brittle. With that said, there are some carbon supersteels that can exceed 63 and be less brittle than many stainless steels of much lower hardness. The thickness of the blade is a major determinant of what is best.

Are you looking for a laser?
What spine thickness do you want?
Will do you more rocking or chopping cuts?
Will you use a cutting board that is easy on the blade? (actual wood like Maple instead of Bamboo or composite)
How much edge retention do you want?
Do you have the tools needed to sharpen higher-hardness steels?
Do you know what angle you want the edge on?

For nice knives, you clean them immediately after usage and hand dry. So need for stainless properties is not the same as something like flatware that sees extended periods of wet and goes in the dishwasher. High carbon will develop a patina and you can make your own cool designs using vinegar and mustard to force the design how you want it. Beyond that, need for stain-resistance isn't all that great. With the knife you are looking at, edge retention is really the most important followed by toughness, which is almost as important.

If you want a laser, stay with high-carbon (or a few high-hardness, high-carbon stainless steels [sometimes called 'semi-stainless')...if you want a thinner edge, the high-carbon steels will generally be a better choice. For hardcore performance, the White and Blue Supersteels are absolutely incredible and they are the industry standard in the high-end chefs knife community because they are ridiculously hard, give stupid crazy edge retention, are less prone to major edge damage despite their high hardness, and are surprisingly easy to sharpen. Unlike most other steels used for cutlery, they can have a paper thin edge, on a very thin blade, with an aggressive grind, with a hardness exceeding 61-63, and yet not be prone to chipping/major edge damage. The performance of the Japanese laser Gyutos with these steels are unmatched.

I love S35VN for a folding knife, but it is NOT a steel of notable edge retention and especially if you have a thinner edge, it is not going to give as good of performance as many of the carbons or even HH stainlesses.

Something like a Konosuke (commonly considered to be the best on many Chef's forums) in White #2 around 61-62 HRC is going to give some serious edge retention over something like a Wusthof which is much softer or a Shun which is still a good bit softer (HRC is misleading here as White #2 at 60 HRC absolutely destroys VG-10 at 60 HRC)...plus, the White and Blue Supersteels avoid chipping issues that many chef knives can be prone to (including some Shun and Wusthof models)...this is a major reason for their popularity. White #1 will take it up another notch and for the super-fine edges, it excels. Blue #2 goes even further with a hardness around 62-63 HRC and yet it is not brittle at all or prone to chipping...for those looking for extreme edge retention, good impact resistance, and easy sharpening, Blue #2 is Mecca. You can give it a straight-razor edge and it will hold for an impressive period. Then there is ZDP-189, but IMHO Blue #2 is a far better steel for this kind of knife.

I settled on a 270mm laser gyuto from Richmond after handling the more common JAH, Wusthof, Shun, Benchmade, etc. and not being happy. My Richmond is 52100 carbon with a mustard patina and it's hardness is around 61. It is very thin and it is using a thin edge. 51200 is an excellent choice given it is hard, not brittle, and less expensive than other steels. It was a great buy for the money and I absolutely love it.

For reference, I sharpen my Richmond about one time for every 10+ times I would with my Wusthofs, so the edge retention gain was huge. The effort for cutting requires multi-fold less force.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Depends on what you want to do. There are some 'high-hardness' stainless knives with hardness in the 60-62 range which are not brittle. With that said, there are some carbon supersteels that can exceed 63 and be less brittle than many stainless steels of much lower hardness. The thickness of the blade is a major determinant of what is best.

Are you looking for a laser?
What spine thickness do you want?
Will do you more rocking or chopping cuts?
Will you use a cutting board that is easy on the blade? (actual wood like Maple instead of Bamboo or composite)
How much edge retention do you want?
Do you have the tools needed to sharpen higher-hardness steels?
Do you know what angle you want the edge on?

For nice knives, you clean them immediately after usage and hand dry. So need for stainless properties is not the same as something like flatware that sees extended periods of wet and goes in the dishwasher. High carbon will develop a patina and you can make your own cool designs using vinegar and mustard to force the design how you want it. Beyond that, need for stain-resistance isn't all that great. With the knife you are looking at, edge retention is really the most important followed by toughness, which is almost as important.

If you want a laser, stay with high-carbon (or a few high-hardness, high-carbon stainless steels [sometimes called 'semi-stainless')...if you want a thinner edge, the high-carbon steels will generally be a better choice. For hardcore performance, the White and Blue Supersteels are absolutely incredible and they are the industry standard in the high-end chefs knife community because they are ridiculously hard, give stupid crazy edge retention, are less prone to major edge damage despite their high hardness, and are surprisingly easy to sharpen. Unlike most other steels used for cutlery, they can have a paper thin edge, on a very thin blade, with an aggressive grind, with a hardness exceeding 61-63, and yet not be prone to chipping/major edge damage. The performance of the Japanese laser Gyutos with these steels are unmatched.

I love S35VN for a folding knife, but it is NOT a steel of notable edge retention and especially if you have a thinner edge, it is not going to give as good of performance as many of the carbons or even HH stainlesses.

Something like a Konosuke (commonly considered to be the best on many Chef's forums) in White #2 around 61-62 HRC is going to give some serious edge retention over something like a Wusthof which is much softer or a Shun which is still a good bit softer (HRC is misleading here as White #2 at 60 HRC absolutely destroys VG-10 at 60 HRC)...plus, the White and Blue Supersteels avoid chipping issues that many chef knives can be prone to (including some Shun and Wusthof models)...this is a major reason for their popularity. White #1 will take it up another notch and for the super-fine edges, it excels. Blue #2 goes even further with a hardness around 62-63 HRC and yet it is not brittle at all or prone to chipping...for those looking for extreme edge retention, good impact resistance, and easy sharpening, Blue #2 is Mecca. You can give it a straight-razor edge and it will hold for an impressive period. Then there is ZDP-189, but IMHO Blue #2 is a far better steel for this kind of knife.

I settled on a 270mm laser gyuto from Richmond after handling the more common JAH, Wusthof, Shun, Benchmade, etc. and not being happy. My Richmond is 52100 carbon with a mustard patina and it's hardness is around 61. It is very thin and it is using a thin edge. 51200 is an excellent choice given it is hard, not brittle, and less expensive than other steels. It was a great buy for the money and I absolutely love it.

For reference, I sharpen my Richmond about one time for every 10+ times I would with my Wusthofs, so the edge retention gain was huge. The effort for cutting requires multi-fold less force.

Guess I can pitch my subscription to Google and just turn off Wikipedia altogether...

Dude you are one serious afficianado of knives and steel. You oughta have your own show or something. W-O-W

I'm humbled. I ain't never showing you my kit for fear I'll find I ain't it what I thought I did.

 

[jaybee]

don't forget ceramic knives

I use them for fruit since they are inert and for slicing frozen meats but they are not your everyday knives

I have both SS and Carbon steel and they both have good and bad points

and you do have to sharpen both of them - out on the boat I prefer stainless

 

[Inigoes]

don't forget ceramic knives

This!

I use my ceramic knives everyday.

 

[NickZac]

Guess I can pitch my subscription to Google and just turn off Wikipedia altogether...

Dude you are one serious afficianado of knives and steel. You oughta have your own show or something. W-O-W

I'm humbled. I ain't never showing you my kit for fear I'll find I ain't it what I thought I did.

Sorry...I'm a bit of a dork when it comes to knives...it's one of those things I've just really taken to over the years and enjoyed, and working with them and sharpening them is like therapy to me