Khyber Pass guns, anyone??

[Doctor_M]

As a rule I like strange and unique guns, so I find the hand made copies that have been made in the Khyber Pass region of Pakistan fascinating. Craftsman there have been handmaking firearms for 200 years and they can range from near exact copies to complete hand grenades. As a rule though, I take the cottage industry that has grown in this region as absolute confirmation that guns can never really be taken out of circulation.

I don't usually post photos of my guns, but this time I'll make an exception. I only have two that are definately Khyber Pass guns, but I'm always looking for other interesting pieces. Both of mine are built on Martini Henry type frames.

If anyone else has some in their collection, I would love to see what's out there.
Cheers

#1 Chambered in .455 Webley. This one is actually a joy to shoot.

#2 This bad boy is chambered in .303 British and is smooth bore. Might have been designed to kill a horse at close range. I have NOT had the marbles to fire this one.

 

[AssMan]

How does one import something like that?

 

[Doctor_M]

Honestly, that is a good question. Both of mine were purchased on my C&R so they were already in the country. I'm sure that some came in as war trophies.

 

[BurkeM]

How does one import something like that?

Thru a licensed importer, if you find a piece on the international market.

 

[Doco Overboard]

I only trust shooting the ones I build myself on the genuine article for an action and ancillary parts.
I'm also skeptical of the forgeries for parts quality which is none and would be very hesitant to use anything for live firing associated with them however well they may appear to be mimicked.

I have a Mark Iv thats nearly ready to be completely assembled for the hard parts,stocks need finalized. Ive been slacking on that one for fitting of the trigger-guard and cocking indicator amongst other things, primarily loafing but just did the other night so its still in queue so this post is not just relevant to my personal undertakings but motivational as well.

Second to last image is what one looks like that's not been well maintained.
I do appreciate the niche for the Khyber guns, thy-ere just not for me.
I also understand based on what I have viewed,some of the guys building them and not just the Martini clones, but even modern pistols and rifles are amazing and would be fascinating to own and collect.

The picture of the blown carbine below is more than likely caused by a bore obstruction more than partway down the barrel because of the split at the Knox form. I notice the action body stayed together and theirs a ton of authentic proof marks but really have no idea what the owner did other than to make sure that's not something I do for me.

So basically Im good with hillbillly engineering for myself, just not what some goat herder scutches out with some scrap iron he removed from some third world dumpster somewhere.
I use red dot shot shell powder in the 303 ammo I make for my rifles to keep them tame for shooting but try them out nicely with some oiled MK VII surplus when I check them out to make sure they are not prone to fail and the system remains operational.
The one on the fence post has a No 4 barrel with the tenon turned down, barrel shortened and really is just a facsimile of nothing or just another undocumented rifle.
So I like weird and homemade guns too although I have not the enthusiasm or skill for what these guys do in their workshops its amazing actually because many if not all parts are fashioned by hand which happens to impress myself none the less.
Thanks for sharing your pistols, theyre cool as sh&t if you ask me.
I put a picture of a blown A3 in there just to indicate anything can go wrong at any time to reinforce the need for using correct PPE when shooting even a so called "good" gun.

 

[Doctor_M]

Cool. Was the one with the blown chamber a Greener Police shotgun?

 

[Defense Initiative]

How does one import something like that?

The importer license is about $3,000 worth.

 

[AssMan]

Ah, makes sense. Wonder if there are importers that specialize in this kind of thing vs. AKs and FALs, etc.?

 

[Doco Overboard]

Its a carbine.
I always look at gunbroker looking to score parts guns.
Have you ever checked to see for the khyber guns?
I see some nice ones on there from time to time. The problem is, often the sellers I think mistake them for authentic ones and are after Martini prices. Sometimes they are advertised and priced accordingly.
Some are even authentic and priced as Khyber guns so it's worth it to go look into whats available form time to time.
When you look at them always look for the checkered thumb-rest on any other but a MkIV. Which has the reinforced hinge area so they're kind of stand alone in that regard. And of course the script which is tell tale but some are hard to tell because they're done pretty darn close.

 

[ken792]

I also understand based on what I have viewed,some of the guys building them and not just the Martini clones, but even modern pistols and rifles are amazing and would be fascinating to own and collect.

Some of the larger factories of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa have CNC machines these days. From speaking to Pakistani collectors, they tell me that while the Pak made guns look impressive and are generally run, even they are a bit wary of them. One told me the AK clones are not suitable for firing real foreign ammo, only locally made/reloaded ammo, which is usually charged with chopped powder from pulled 12.7mm rounds. His Glock clone that was less than $200 doesn’t run reliably while he paid thousands of USD for a real Glock.

Moon Star Arms Company | Khyber

Moon Star Arms Company, Khyber, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan. 53,260 likes · 8 talking about this · 105 were here. Moon Star Arms Manufacturer, The Num1 Brand Name in Arms Indusrtries. Since 1965...

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How does one import something like that?

Non-08 FFLs can occasionally import non military surplus sporting arms. FFL 03s can import C&R non military surplus sporting arms for personal use.

Most of these in the country are probably Afghanistan bringbacks. They pop up now and then, sometimes with paperwork. My friend has a Afghan bringback FN 1893 Mauser. The guy who brought it back and sold it to him told me that his buddies were all buying Sniders and Martinis at the Camp Phoenix bazaar. He spotted the Mauser and wanted to be a little different.

 

[Defense Initiative]

Ah, makes sense. Wonder if there are importers that specialize in this kind of thing vs. AKs and FALs, etc.?

There are so many restrictions that it wouldn't be worth it. Prior to the invasion, the SOCOM museum staff [or ASOM] showed up to one of our briefings and asked us to gather up war trophies for them. We had one guy who claimed to have mailed some pistols back before the postal clerk's X-ray machines showed up. Another guy got his hands on a gold-plated AK-47. The SOCOM museum was interested, but I don't know the outcome.

 

[teratos]

Armed Ferret brought one back from Afghanistan. Chambered in some crazy caliber. Interesting piece.

 

[Bertfish]

Armed Ferret brought one back from Afghanistan. Chambered in some crazy caliber. Interesting piece.

Came here to say this

 

[Defense Initiative]

Armed Ferret brought one back from Afghanistan. Chambered in some crazy caliber. Interesting piece.

I met a guy who worked for the US Army Center of Military History at a show, and he had several rifles for sale. I believe they were beaten up Enfields. Not my thing, so I didn't pay too much attention to them.

 

[somd_mustangs]

This may be a Khyber pass clone of a Star(-style) pistol (Model P maybe), chambered in .45 ACP. It's a mess and I'd rate it more toward the "hand-grenade" end of the spectrum. I sent it back (long ago) but now I kinda regret it because it's just so... bad. The frame and even the slide are made up of pieces that are welded (poorly) together. Barrel "rifling" looks like it was literally carved by hand. Judging by the bent slide stop shaft someone had the cajones to actually shoot this I think.

At first glance it doesn't look too bad...

But then, it's mysterious start to be revealed...

A real Star Model P in .45 ACP

 

[Doctor_M]

Wow... I'm with you, would definitely not put a round through that, but still kind of cool from a historic perspective. Better than I could have done with a bunch of pot metal and a file. Wall hangers need love too.

 

[metalman3006]

I'll raise you a Mexican colt "homemade"
It's in 44-40

 

[teratos]

I met a guy who worked for the US Army Center of Military History at a show, and he had several rifles for sale. I believe they were beaten up Enfields. Not my thing, so I didn't pay too much attention to them.

I think AFs is a Martini-Henry.

Not my thing, either, but those Afghani and Pakistani smiths can make some interesting things.

 

[Doctor_M]

I'll raise you a Mexican colt "homemade"
It's in 44-40

That's pretty cool. Do you know an approximate date on that?

 

[metalman3006]

Colts That Weren’t: Some Were Legal, Most Were Forgeries

Many copies saw use in the Mexican revolutions. When I was buying antique guns in Mexico during the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s, I hauled dozens of old,

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