Is .40 S&W DOA?

[John from MD]

Just came back from the gun shop,
(was looking for a Beretta PX4 SC in .40)
and the manager said he won't stock .40 pistola's.
The round is dead.?
Only thing selling is 9mm, so that's what he stocks.
I was shocked! Is that the general consensus?
Is .40 and .45 DOA? Did I get that old?

I still keep my M&P .40 for a house gun and I just bought new ammo for it. So I would say it will stay around just because there are so many guns that are out there in the caliber. I don't think any new ones will be made though.

 

[OMCHamlin]

So, it's become a face-off between the .40 S&W fan boys and the gun counter guys, as it would, as it has many times before.
For the record, I have MANY 9's, several .357 Sigs and a passel of .45's. And a 10mm Glock 40MOS. And ONE .spare .40S&W barrel for what is primarily a .357 Sig gun (a Gen 3 G35 with KKM barrel)
As a guy that spent time behind a gun counter on VA's shore until a year ago, I can observe these things:
1. We stocked some 40s, often times because we needed guns for the cabinet. Folks around there still like the 40, but way more new folks bought 9mm.
2. I noticed many more 40 police trade ins available through our wholesalers. 9s too, but I saw where the used 9's cost slightly more then the 40s.
3. We stocked and sold 40, but in the mad scramble to get ammo to sell, we prized finding a few cases of 9 more highly than 40.
4. It had, by then, started to be harder to find brand new offerings in that frame size in 40, where as it used to be "available in 9 and 40".

When the police returned to the 9mm en masse, they dumped their 40s on the secondary market, so used prices are as good as their going to get (I think). Ammo? Ammo for the 40S&W is going to be around for a looong time to come, because it's NOT a "bad round" by any stretch. But there HAS been a shift in professional perception of that round/platform.
My final analysis (which is worth nothing, except to me): It IS slowly on it's way out, but it IS one hell of a round. I just have ones I like better, the CLEARLY sinking .357 Sig being one of them, 10mm another.

 

[IronEye]

I carry a .40 P229, but I'm looking for a
sub compact in .40, and hammer fired.
The choices are limited. I'm really not
comfortable with a 9mm. A lot more
choices in .45 sub compact, but that means
adding another caliber. I was hoping to
avoid that. I hear everyone say that 9mm
has improved, and is as capable as .40 & .45,
but I'm looking at balistics and gel test videos
and I'm not seeing it.

I picked up a nice used SIG P239 in 40 S&W for less than $400 back in April - probably because it was in 40 S&W. It is much smaller (and thinner) than a P229 and might be it might be what you are looking for in a smaller hammer-fired 40 S&W pistol.
It's a great gun and dead nutz reliable if you're willing to look at used guns and "only" 7+1 will suit your needs.

Hnadgun Hero side-by-side SIG P239 vs Glock 27

 

[clandestine]

The manager isn't wrong the .40 does not sell as well as 9mm and .45. .40 tend to sell better in states with strict mag capacity laws, and to less informed buyers.

It will never die but it's much, much less popular than it was years ago. In my opinion it's a dumb round to choose with all that available in today's market unless you are on a budget and it's heavily discounted.

Lots of people gravitated toward it because of the 94AWB
/mag capacity bans, and a large amount of LE adopting it. The 94AWB sunsetted and LE many LE agencies got less stupid with their selection of calibers. They moved away from 9mm/.40 sub guns for tactical guys and switched to 5.56, and dumped .40 for 9mm.

If .40 cal handguns were 1/4 the cost of 9mm handguns, I still wouldn't buy one.

 

[Pale Ryder]

The manager is a ******* idiot.

This!
When the next ammo scare comes he’ll be sitting on all those 9’s that nobody can feed.
Last go around 40 was easy to find when 9 and 5.56 was scarce.

 

[Brickman301]

3 pages and not one mention that 40 is “ghey”?
Damn MDS, you all are slipping and letting me down. Lol

 

[303_enfield]

.40 S&W dead, not a chance. Maybe you misheard him? Did he say, ".45GAP"?

.40S&W, for when 9MM isn't enough and .45ACP is too much!

 

[joppaj]

.40 S&W dead, not a chance. Maybe you misheard him? Did he say, ".45GAP"?

45GAP was almost a stillborn. If GLOCK hadn't all but given it to some Departments I'm not sure it would have ever gone commercial.

 

[holesonpaper]

Is .40 dead? Not by any stretch however after watching all the drama unfold 6-8 years ago, I have no plans to ever pickup something in that caliber again. There’s simply other, debatably, better choices. To each their own.

All the FBI analysis of formulated my opinion and its consistent with the experiences I’ve seen. Here’s just one summary I quickly found.

FBI 9MM Justification, FBI Training Division - Soldier Systems Daily

 

[teratos]

3 pages and not one mention that 40 is “ghey”?
Damn MDS, you all are slipping and letting me down. Lol

Implied in post #22 with the rainbow flag.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

I think in real life scenarios...if a .40 would fail a 9mm likely would as well. The same goes for the 9mm...if it gets the job done the .40 would have as well. Every scenario is different while generalizations can and will be made you cannot always predict the outcome with any accuracy.

 

[DelawareGold]

I read the article, and the take away I got was:

• 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)
• The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)

The criteria for the switch was lower cost, and the ability of less qualified agents to achieve a better score. I don't doubt that a 9mm Hollow point will have a better wound track than a .40 FMJ, but I've seen gel tests of 9mm Hollow point to .40 Hollow point, and the the wound track severity was noticeably different.
To me it looks like the tail wagging the dog.
I also noticed that muzzle velocity, and terminal velocity were
not part of the criteria.

 

[OMCHamlin]

3 pages and not one mention that 40 is “ghey”?
Damn MDS, you all are slipping and letting me down. Lol

When 41% of the forum is ghey, calling something ghey has less impact...

 

[Biggfoot44]

would never trust a non-striker gun in appendix.

Not to mention the damn hammer digging in you.

I assume you were only thinking of single action when you typed that?

Because a decocked DA pistol would be 'more trustworthy' than striker fired. Not that either is going to go off spontaneously, but there would have to be a whole heck of a lot go wrong all at the same time before you'd get a ND from a DA pistol with the hammer down.

Alright ! Did the quotes in proper sequence !

What Bullfrog is saying .
Virtually every DA/SA and ( conventional ) DAO will have substantially heavier and substantially longer trigger pull ( at least for first shot ) than virtually any modern Striker fired .

Hammer spurs ? Wide variety of factory options . plus easy modification . Full spur , small spur , flush spur , plus ( on many DAO) fully enclosed hammer aka hammerless .

See . I kept in the spirit of the thread . and didn't even mention bobbed . shrouded , ot enclosed hammer DA Revolvers .

 

[Biggfoot44]

Disclaimer - I was never into .40S&W , because before it existed , I was already well positioned with both 9mm and .45acp . I felt ( that with loads of my choosing ) 9mm was potent enough , and I wasn't distressed about .45acp capacity , as I carried spare mags . Hence a compromise in search of a gap .

That said , .40 is a perfectly fine ctg , filling any reasonable requirement for Duty/ Defense with a belt size or compact- ish pistol . *

The latest round of 9mm proponents claims for latest super duper 9mm ammo to Match .40 effectiveness , with advantages relating to lower recoil , and better scoring by NSMF's . If you can competently shoot .40 , absolutely no reason to not use/ trust it .

* The astricks is that for polymer micro pistols , the recoil difference is meaningful there .


I'll say it first here . In 10-15 years , .40 will be in demand as a collectible Retro . Don't believe me ? Check out the going prices for Gen 1 and 2 Glocks these days .

Added - above I specified " 9mm loads of my choosing " . The reality is some 9mm loads are great . and some suck .

In .40 , nothing sucks . The caliber was invented around a 180 JHP . which performs decently . 165 . 155 . ect jhp only got even better . Even FMJ range ammo is flat point . not RN .

 

[beetles]

I am sure the round will be around for a while, there were so many pistols made to use it before the wave went back to 9mm for police issue. What there probably won't be happening is much R&D by ammunition makers or caliber-specific parts made for the aftermarket. Manufacturers will likely consolidate their lines and drop certain products that served the .40 models they built.

I can hardly find aftermarket parts for a SA XDm 4.5" .40 I bought about 10 years ago. I found an NOS Storm Lake .40 to 9mm conversion (bull) barrel a few years ago, but even those are no longer available.

 

[hodgepodge]

.40 S&W isn't dead. It's just sleeping.

My first handgun was a Glock 22 in .40. I liked the caliber then and I still do.

 

[brianns]

.40 S&W isn't dead. It's just sleeping.

My first handgun was a Glock 22 in .40.

Me too!

 

[Phoenix_1295]

The more folks buying 9mm ammo leaves more .40 ammo available for others.

(Remember the big government contract purchases of .40 ammo years back that made it a scarce commodity for a while.)

Everyone likes different firearms, and that’s what makes discussions interesting and educational.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

I carried a .40 that was issued to me before I retired...liked the round...hated the pistol...thought of it as a boat anchor. Outside of that I have no real use for the caliber. I'm well stocked with 9mm and .45 as well as revolver calibers. Don't really need to complicate things any more than that.

But...if the right pistol comes along at the right price...it could happen.