If Russia acts a fool. When to leave the DMV?

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  • Jimgoespewpew

    Member
    Mar 6, 2021
    817
    I already posted this a couple of time on MDS with links, but in addition to hyper sonic missiles, Puttie Pute Pute has an honest-to-God doomsday device. It's an autonomous sub that swims in circles under the Pacific until it decides it's time to explode and surfaces next to the Pacific Northwest. Just like in the movie it sends a shiit ton of radiation into the upper atmosphere to whaff down first upon CONUS. Good luck with your plans.
    If you're not gone by November 7, it's too late.
    Enlighten me.
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    41,257
    MD
    “So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
    Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.
    When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.
    When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.”
    ~ Chief Tecumseh
     

    OMCHamlin

    Member
    May 17, 2017
    716
    The Cumberland Plateau
    I already posted this a couple of time on MDS with links, but in addition to hyper sonic missiles, Puttie Pute Pute has an honest-to-God doomsday device. It's an autonomous sub that swims in circles under the Pacific until it decides it's time to explode and surfaces next to the Pacific Northwest. Just like in the movie it sends a shiit ton of radiation into the upper atmosphere to whaff down first upon CONUS. Good luck with your plans.
    Imagine, for a brief moment, the value per ruble you would get, if you convinced folk on the internet that you actually HAVE a "doomsday device", when you really DON'T. He doesn't have that, and you are a little foolish in thinking he does, honestly.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    45,922
    SoMD / West PA
    Imagine, for a brief moment, the value per ruble you would get, if you convinced folk on the internet that you actually HAVE a "doomsday device", when you really DON'T. He doesn't have that, and you are a little foolish in thinking he does, honestly.
    Russia and China have nuclear torpedoes.



     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,805
    Oddly I'm disappointed Baltimore wouldn't be on that list...
    No point in using up a nuke, as well as increasing the nuclear winter.

    Some researchers modeled what a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan would look like. The assumption was Pakistan would use most of their nukes leaving only a couple dozen in reserve. India would use about half of theirs (they have about 2x as many as Pakistan anyway) to keep in reserve because of China.

    The estimate is on the order of 700 million dead in that initial exchange (and within a couple of days). The amount of crap kicked up in to the atmosphere, and MOST of it would be from the massive fires caused (huge cities being incinerated and then burning, forest fires started, etc.) would likely result in global temperatures within months dropping between 8 and 10 degrees F. It would take approximately 4-6 years for temperatures to begin recovering and might take 10 years to fully recover. This would likely result in a billion people starving to death due to crop failures between reduced temperatures and the fact that global light levels would drop something like 10-20%, reducing the growth rate of plants further.

    US/Russia with a similar "limited" nuclear exchange is thought to kill fewer people. Though more than likely if Russia were to strike the US, they would almost certainly hit major NATO bases and some of the NATO member capitols and C&C centers too. Anyway, US/Russia is estimated to only be around 150 million immediately because of the much lower population of both countries and that a lot of the strategic targets aren't too close to major cities (yes, SOME are, like Moscow and DC. But NYC has no major C&C centers or military bases near it). If all of NATO gets added in, it likely increases it to around 400 million because of targets in Europe and the much higher population densities near major targets there.

    The nuclear winter effect would likely be of a similar scale.

    This is JUST for the envisioned "gut each others nuclear forces, major C&C, sub bases, strategic air force bases).

    A blanket approach of use up everything and just glass each other would like result in about 400 million dying between US and Russia, make it about 800-900 million if that included NATO (which it would). However, the nuclear winter resulting would probably reduce global light levels by 30-50% and drop surface temperatures by 20-25F over a couple of years and would likely take 10-15 years to recover fully. In that time probably 4-6 billion people would starve to death, on top of the nearly billion who died immediately.

    Yeah, probably only a few hundred million would survive.

    None of that includes the resulting secondary wars that might start when other countries realize most of their populaces are going to die, so that they try to get what resources they can from everyone else. Even in the limited nuclear war case, that might add tens to hundreds of millions dead.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,805
    Russia and China have nuclear torpedoes.




    On Russia, that is assuming it would work. As many subs as they have had sunk, and as many cruise missiles and ballistic missiles as they have that seem to be misfiring, going off target, etc....

    I wouldn't put it past them to have a solid 50%+ failure rate on an automated nuclear torpedo. And their "around the world" range nuclear powered, nuclear torpedo appears to be as much myth as their nuclear powered hypersonic cruise missile that blew up on the test stand a year or two ago killing dozens.

    Russia's current "hypersonic" cruise missiles, are their SRBM launched from an airplane. Possibly in theory it can evasively maneuver. However, there is no evidence that it does. So it makes it a somewhat hard target to hit because of its speed, but not particularly worse than the SRBM version...just that it has a somewhat long range and slightly higher speed because it is getting launched potentially at 30-40k ft and maybe ~mach 1 rather than 0ft and 0mph. (Kinzhal missile, which is just an air launched Iskander). The pinpoint precision of them appears...overbilled. As does the velocity (a claimed "up to Mach 12", but appears to only hit around Mach 10...if launched from a Foxbat already booking ~Mach 3 at the time of launch). It is difficult to intercept, and does carry decoys in some versions (PS Ukraine has captured several fairly Kinzhal missiles including their decoys and almost certainly shared with US/NATO intelligence).

    Several Kinzhal missiles have been reported confirmed intercepted by Ukrainian air defense. In addition, they ALSO seem to have around a 50% failure rate, straight up. The ones that don't fail appear to only have a CEP of around 30 meters, not the claimed 3 meters.
     

    Seagrave1963

    Still learnin'
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 6, 2011
    9,513
    Eastern Shore
    “So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
    Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.
    When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.
    When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.”
    ~ Chief Tecumseh
    Amen. Thanks for posting this joppaj
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    18,893
    I'm not sure that is a good idea unless you are leaving from OC or Delaware and heading into the Atlantic. If you are going down the Chesapeake you will pass Norfolk which will probably be melted by the time your boat gets there.
    Go up the bay through the C&D canal and out through Delaware bay.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,329
    I'll take DelMarVa as a WAG
    DMV was derived from the gogo days to refer to the DC, MD, VA immediate area. It extends from Fredericksburg, VA in the South, to Columbia, MD in the North, and from the Chesapeake Bay to roughly Manassas.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    11,329
    OP...Please define DMV. I'm assuming you're talking about DC, but in all my years of federal service it was called MDW (Military District of Washington).
    Just curious.
    Two completely different things, given that the DMV as defined from the gogo days, is a much larger area than the MDW.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Active Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    22,324
    White Marsh
    “So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
    Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.
    When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision.
    When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.”
    ~ Chief Tecumseh

    Outstanding. Thanks for posting that.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    18,893
    Now what if the strike turns out to be composed of all high altitude detonations to blanket the country in multiple EMP events that destroy the electrical grid and most of the electronics without doing much physical damage. Everything is still here but nothing works. The Russian and Chinese peasants who are sent to recolonize the territory after we all starve to death don't need nor will they miss what they never had.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    10,805
    Now what if the strike turns out to be composed of all high altitude detonations to blanket the country in multiple EMP events that destroy the electrical grid and most of the electronics without doing much physical damage. Everything is still here but nothing works. The Russian and Chinese peasants who are sent to recolonize the territory after we all starve to death don't need nor will they miss what they never had.
    Sigh. EMP will generally not destroy electronics. It will do a number on the grid. But electronics will, for the most part, be fine.

    China only survives by modern farming. And many, even peasants, have a level of technology and “niceties” unheard of 59 years ago. They for sure don’t have an urban standard of living. But it isn’t some pack wars peasant living in a hut next to their rice pattie for 95% of peasants and hasn’t been in decades.
     

    Alan3413

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 4, 2013
    13,787
    Does anyone really want to survive a nuclear war?
    They have some cool cars

    Mad-Max-Interceptor-1600x1148.jpg
     

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