I Really Like French Model 1950 Pistols

[somd_mustangs]

Take advantage of the 2 spare mags, you're unlikely to find those in the wild...

 

[Doctor_M]

Ahhhh.... I've been trying to keep the discretionary spending under control. Curse this temptation and my inability to fight it. I think I'm putting in an order tomorrow.

 

[mawkie]

Well the value of my GI bring back probably just dropped at least $500-1,000. Would love to know where these came from. Can't be France as they signed onto the UN Small Arms Treaty, vowing not to sell on the open market. Pretty sure they would destroy theirs just like they did with the MAS 49s turned in from the Gendarme.
If you don't own one and have the coin I'd recommend seriously considering getting one. These prices are at least $300-500 below recent comps and they come with a holster and spare mag. IMHO one of the best deals I've seen for a rare and desirable French pistol. Hell they're selling for what a beat Mle 1873/1874 revolver is (thanks to their use in The Mummy movie). A no-brainer.
I mentioned to somd_mustangs that only about 200 were imported in the early 60s from S. Vietnam. Any others are bring backs, like mine. So not very many floating around the US.

 

[somd_mustangs]

My take is that if yours (or any bring-back) is original finish and doesn't have an import mark the value won't drop much if at all. Especially if these have assembly numbers or full/partial S/N on the slide, barrel and small parts and they all match.

 

[calicojack]

Just recently, the French Ministry of the Armed Forces website pulled down the information they had about these pistols and replaced it with the Glock 17, their now standard sidearm. That means the venerable old 1950 has officially been put out to pasture. We may end up seeing a flood of these into the country. I'm VERY surprised the ultra-liberal French government didn't just destroy them rather than allow them to fall into the hands of the common man.

If we see a flood of these - then how are these going to fare in the long-run price wise? Oh well - they are very nice and I really really really really am thinking about getting one of these as I have zero French weapons of any kind. And a bag of mags. And a spare mag (I like the way they way they have a pic of an entire bag of 10)

 

[Combloc]

OK, according to Medlin and Huon "French Service Handguns 1858-2004" pp. 157-8 the MAC mfg pistols are S/N A0001 to W1900 (from 1953 to 1963). The MAS mfg guns are from FG00001 to FG100000 (Nov. 1963 to Aug. 1976) and FH00001 to FH20000 (Aug 1976 to April 1978). Most of these offered right now are C, D, F block and FG-block S/N's with MAC marked slides. There are 2 F-block guns up today with MAS slides (the more expensive listings).

So my questions for smarter people than me: are the slides numbered to the frames ala the 1935-A? And did they get swapped around when refurbished, like the 1911-A1 refurb program? In other words, why are MAS marked slides on MAC range S/N's and vice-versa. Or is the book wrong?

Madlin and Huon are correct. For whatever reason, some of these are mismatched. I was told this is how they were imported. You need to know what you are looking at and you need to look carefully before you buy.

There are no RARE Chatellerault number blocks. Each block is exactly 9999 pistols except for the "W" block which is 1900 pistols.

The only part serial numbered is the frame. The only parts manufacturer marked are the frame (serial number tells you who made it), the slide, and the lock. The fact is, even if all three of the identifiable parts are from the same manufacturer, there is no way to absolutely guarantee they all left the factory together. With the Chatellault examples, there are slide marking variations but there are no hard numbers as to when the markings changed. Additionally, MAC pistols I've seen exhibit at least three variations of the "MAC" mark on the lock. Were all three marks in use at the same time or was there a progression? I surely don't know.

From what I've seen so far, if not all, almost all of these pistols have original finish. The one I have that is not import marked was arsenal refinished and it's easy to tell the difference between that and original finish once you have both in hand. Two of the pistols I bought have replacement barrels but everything else seems to be original finish. In other words, they simply fitted a new barrel to the pistol and nothing else.

There is a difference between the St.Etienne and Chatellerault phosphate finishes.
The Chatellerault examples will generally have a darker frame than slide while the St. Etienne examples seem to be a more uniform with the overall color darker and less green than the MAC jobbers.

Although all seem to be in very nice surplus condition, the St. Etienne pistols I've seen show less finish wear.

I was assured these WERE bought from France. Given EU regulations BS, I don't understand it either but that's what I was told. I was also told this was a one time buy and they would not disclose how many there are. But, judging from the Navy Arms video posted on youboob, there are at least three crates.

 

[Combloc]

If we see a flood of these - then how are these going to fare in the long-run price wise? Oh well - they are very nice and I really really really really am thinking about getting one of these as I have zero French weapons of any kind. And a bag of mags.

I always say, buy it now or regret not buying it later. They allow you to purchase two extra magazines per pistol. I bought 12 additional magazines. The finish varied from well worn to almost new but all seem to be perfectly functional.

 

[somd_mustangs]

Thanks Combloc! so if someone sees the F-blocks with MAS slides, you'd have to buy an FG-block with a MAC slide and an F-block (or other single-letter) with the MAS and swap the slides

"The one I have that is not import marked was arsenal refinished and it's easy to tell the difference between that and original finish once you have both in hand." Does it have that thick dark park'd (re)finish like the French-assembled P.38's?

 

[Waingro]

Beautiful Combloc

 

[Combloc]

Thanks Combloc! so if someone sees the F-blocks with MAS slides, you'd have to buy an FG-block with a MAC slide and an F-block (or other single-letter) with the MAS and swap the slides

"The one I have that is not import marked was arsenal refinished and it's easy to tell the difference between that and original finish once you have both in hand." Does it have that thick dark park'd (re)finish like the French-assembled P.38's?

It's been years since I've seen one of those P38's so I forget. It is a thick finish and it's very green. This is my refurb:

 

[Combloc]

It's hard to exactly capture the finish because of lighting through a camera lens vs. throught your eye lens but I'll try.

Here are three in the sun:

On the left is MAC original finish. Middle is refurbed MAC, and MAS is on the right.

Here are the same three pistols in the same order in the shade:



And the colors change considerably through the camera when seen in the sun from a different angle. Here, we have MAS on the left, MAC refurb in the middle, and original finish MAC on the right:

Where the MAS looked like dark graphite before, it now takes on a very dark green hue. The refurb now looks almost grey and the original finish MAC has a slight hint of brown.

Taken from a different angle in the sun, all three finishes look almost the same:

OF MAC at left and MAS on right.

So, the BEST way to determine what you are looking at is to either find yourself a better photographer or put your own eyeballs on the subject!

Looking at markings can also provide clues.
The OF MAC marking is deep and crisp:


And the refurb has had it's markings buffed:


Notice that the refurb has a period after the "C" but the OF example does not. As I said earlier, there seem to be a number of variations with regards to markings.

But even the depth of the markings can be deceiving depending on the hand of the one who applied it to begin with or the man who prepped the pistol for refurbishment if/when the time came. These are just like the Russian SKS's that came in back in the early 90's. LOTS of neat differences but some guesswork. Eventually, some of these things MAY be worked out.......maybe. I love this kind of stuff!!

 

[RFBfromDE]

Is that a top extractor?

And do the shells all bounce off your dome?

 

[Combloc]

That's a loaded chamber indicator. The extractor is on the right side:





Notice that the sights are non-adjustable too. To quote the 1964 "Infantry Armament Regulations" publication (INF 401/3):

"The Model 1950 9mm pistol is a semi-automatic handgun, used in action at very close range."

Presumably that means so close you don't need to worry about adjustable sights.

 

[RFBfromDE]

Thanks!

Looks as if Ruger used some of the design elements on the P-series.

 

[somd_mustangs]

This is the dark "Frenchie" finish I was referring to... it's rough and "matte". Yours doesn't look anything like it, I don't think. Which is probably good because it's kind of an unattractive finish.

 

[Combloc]

No. That's very different.

Thanks for the post!

 

[ezracer]

Sorry. I saw French Model and got all confused. Was thinking Bridgette Bardot!!

 

[Trepang]

Still on the lookout for a WWII MAB-D, preferably a pre-occupation one but I would settle on a Waffenamt marked one if the price was right.

 

[calicojack]

Take advantage of the 2 spare mags, you're unlikely to find those in the wild...

I am so naive - I actually thought the pic of a bag of 10 mags was what you got for $60! $60 each and limit 2.
Well after all you can get G3 mags for like $6 each

 

[Combloc]

Those magazines are usually about $100 each.