I need some Cast Bullet hep

[cbrenner]

Hi,

I want to get cast bullets to use in loads for my Ruger SBH in .44. I want to start with .44 special loads.

I slugged my cylinder and it is .432. I have read that this is a critical dimension to use for bullet diameter..

My question is what diameter bullet should I use? Penn bullets does .432 and .431. Most commercial bullets are .430.

I will appreciate any help.

Thanks.

 

[j8064]

Generally cb's should be .001 bigger in diameter than jb's for the bbl (NOT the cylinder). Perhaps casting and sizing your own cb's would be a better option?

 

[wgttgw]

I would shoot a bullet that is at the cylinder diameter. By reading your post, are you saying that is .432 ? If that is the case that would be what I used. I am not doubting you as it is surely possible, but my super blackhawk cylinder is .430. The redhawks were know to be large like you describe. What are you slugging the cylinder with and how are you measuring? If you have some Hornady jacketed bullet they measure .430 and you could see how they fit the cylinder. I like to size so the bullet can be pushed through the largest cylinder with very little force ( just a little to big to just fall through).

I could possibly send you some 429421 sized at .430 to try if that might help. I would also skip the 44 special and just load some light 44 magnum if that is the route you want to go. I never cared for the carbon ring in the cylinder left behind when shooting the specials and you can go fairly mild in the magnum case.

 

[wgttgw]

Not trying to disagree with post #2 as the grove diameter is your ultimate goal. However, in a revolver each of your cylinder throats will act like individual sizing dies. Your bullet will need to fill the cylinder throat to prevent leading there. I go by the school of thought to size to the cylinder throat and if that is as big or bigger than barrel groove you are good to go. If you size for the barrel and have large throats you will have leading and gas cutting before you ever enter the forcing cone.

 

[j8064]

I'm confused. Slugging a barrel is something routinely done. The barrel is what directs the bullet downrange. Slugging a cylinder without knowing the bbl diameter? That's a new one...

 

[cbrenner]

I slugged the barrel with a lead round ball. I used a micrometer and a caliper and both came out at .432. It was tough getting the ball through so it was very tight. The .431 may work as you say needing just a little help to get through the end of the cylinder.

I took the slug and fit it into the forcing cone and it fit snug just pushing with my hand. I am not sure how to rest the revolver to drive the slug into the barrel from the muzzle.

 

[wgttgw]

I was always told to do both, but my way of thinking is if the cylinder is as large or larger than bore your good and size to the largest cylinder. This is not the end all do all.

If you don't size to the cylinder than I would think one of a couple things will happen.

Your barrel grove diameter will be the same size a the cylinder throat (which is good an probably typical)

If your throats are small than the bullet will be sized down to cylinder throat size. This is bad and you may have to open the cylinder throat to push cast to it fullest. The bullet will be undersized when it makes it to the barrel no matter what the size was when loaded.

Your cylinder throats are big and either you size the bullet to fill them or the bullet bumps up to fill them when shot. I prefer to size them big and not rely on them to bump up. If you don't fill the throat you will have gas cutting, bullet damage and lube loss.

 

[cbrenner]

Not trying to disagree with post #2 as the grove diameter is your ultimate goal. However, in a revolver each of your cylinder throats will act like individual sizing dies. Your bullet will need to fill the cylinder throat to prevent leading there. I go by the school of thought to size to the cylinder throat and if that is as big or bigger than barrel groove you are good to go. If you size for the barrel and have large throats you will have leading and gas cutting before you ever enter the forcing cone.

This is what I have read that is why I slugged the cylinder.

 

[wgttgw]

How I sized my cylinder on my SBH was I had some Hornady .430 bullets, my 429421 were .431 as cast and my mold for my 444 is sized to .432. I tried all three bullets and the .430 fit with only very slight pressure need to be pushed through. I ordered a .430 sizer and loaded the 429421 sized to .430 and never looked back. If that did not work I would have slugged the barrel. I have pushed that bullet to 1450 fps and never need more than a patch to clean the barrel. My cast loads in this gun exceed any jacket load I have ever shot in it.

My smith has small throats I don't get leading, but I never have gotten the accuracy from cast I can get with jacket.

 

[brackishfly]

.44 BBL

Thought .44 BBL's were .429? I'm sizing cast to .430 using a Lee sizer for my Ruger SBH 7.5" Hunter. All the commercial copper stuff is .429 to my knowledge.

 

[wgttgw]

Most jacketed bullets are .429 some are .430. Most barrels are .429 some are not. Cast bullets are sized .001 to .002 over groove diameter (like in your case .430). Where it can get tricky with cast is if your throats are big or small.

 

[cbrenner]

Barrel slugs out at between .4295 and .430. Should I be good a .431?

 

[wgttgw]

Barrel slugs out at between .4295 and .430. Should I be good a .431?

Hard to say for sure, but the .431 would be easier in the future if you deiced to cast your own, but really the gun will deiced. I would probably at least try .431 vs .432. Truthfully being it is a SBH and having one myself I would try .430 as well. The molds and sizers for .430 are much easier to get if you cast your own later.

IIRC you are buying from Penn bullets. What is the minimum amount you can order? What is the hardness? A super hard bullet will be difficult to bump up to the cylinder especially shot in a mild load.

 

[cbrenner]

I have looked at Montana and Beartooth as well. Beartooth are 22 Brinell but you can get .430, .431, .4315 and .432.

Montana has a couple at 15 Brinell and some at 22. They also allow a range of diameters up to .432. But only 15 Brinell at .432 is a full wadcutter 220gr.

Plus both above do 100 rd orders. Maybe I will start with a .430 and a .431 and see how they shoot. I can work up some various loads to test.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Bisleyfan44]

www.montanabulletworks.com
www.proshootpro.com
www.rimrockbullets.net
www.laser-cast.com

Just some more options for ya.......

 

[wgttgw]

Wow, 15 seems pretty hard for a mild magnum or special load. I have no way to test hardness, but air cooled wheel weights are suppose to be around 12 and I have pushed that pretty fast. Elmer Keith invented the 44 magnum and his load was 22 gr of 2400. He shot 16 parts lead to1 part tin which is around 11 bhn .

I would not even consider using 22 bhn in a handgun. I am thinking they are meant for a 444 or 44 magnum rifle. Which I don't use that hard of cast in the 444 either. I have shot a clone of Lyman #2 (around 15 bhn) or water dropped WW (around 16 bhn) in the 444 to over 2000 fps.

I understand you are not casting your own and may only find so many options, but I think I would look for around 12 bhn.

 

[wgttgw]

Just to add an important fact to my previous post:

For anyone who reads this and misguided enough to load with out a manual. That load of Keith is above the current max listed by Alliant with the 255 gr SWC. It is debated whether it is safe or not with the current 2400 powder. And regardless of any debate is not safe in all guns.

 

[brackishfly]

I've used the Lyman #2 mix checked and unchecked in my N frame .357. No real leading at all (alas it could be the lube), compared to some commercial .38sp lead swc's (too soft with too much leading IMO, sheets 'O' lead).

 

[Pinecone]

Many commercial bullets from the big bullet companies (Speer, Hornady, etc) are swaged, not cast. And are nearly pure lead.

 

[Magnumite]

Bullets should be dized to the chamber throat diameter, assuming proper tolerance.

A- This way the bullet is fired at throat diameter and is swaged down by the barrel - one 'dynamic' resizing.

B- If the bullet is sized to the smaller bore, the bullet is expanded as it goes through the chamber throat then swaged down entering the barrel - two 'dynamic' sizings - and more chance of things not being quite right for accuracy.

Size method A above is like the Dan Wesson barrel which tapers to a smaller diameter through the bore, bullets gets sized in one 'direction'. This partially accounts for some of those revolvers' very good accuracy.