TRACT Optics

How to properly beat a horse. Please allot 16 hours. This is mandatory.

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  • JohnnyE

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    5,514
    MoCo
    A quarterly shot of good bourbon takes care of that, you've lasted this long, you're good.
    Glad to be good, but quarterly? I need daily therapy!
     

    LoneWolf123

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 17, 2022
    140
    Maryland
    Have you ever been to Annapolis and sat in on a committee hearing?

    If so, then you would know that, no, they do not discuss any of the bills line by line.
    I have listened in to a bunch of the hearings yearly.


    The only thing I remember about that lovely bill was the debate over if off-duty police should be allowed to carry on school grounds.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Active Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    22,576
    White Marsh
    I think MGA threw the exemption in the 2013 FSA just to further divide the 2A community into factions


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Yes. We were there, we lived it.

    The monster that O'Malley threw out there was an absolute abomination. We did our very best against that nonsense, and came up with relatively little to show for it. The exemption for vets (with which I do not agree, at all, but also do not begrudge) made the grabbers look decent and patriotic compared to the alternative. "See? We're only after reasonable gun control!"

    Mandatory training is absolute dog sh!t. It needs to fall as it is not consistent with our text, history, and tradition.
     

    TxAggie

    Active Member
    Feb 25, 2012
    4,731
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    Last time I checked, COTUS doesn’t require training. So if my DD214 means I don’t have to adhere to a meaningless training then so be it. Especially since the MD training requirement isn’t exactly geared towards competency anyhow. One live round fired. How’s that for competency.

    That being said, if you’re going to carry, it’s your own responsibility to be proficient, be that with practice, formal training, or working with others who can teach you best practices.

    Just my $0.02.
     

    Bullfrog

    Active Member
    Oct 8, 2009
    12,107
    Carroll County
    This is one person that should not be allowed to use his DD214. That is if he has one.
    Lol ok then.

    In that case you also need to remove the exemption for all persons with DD214's from since... whenever up through the 2000's, because this is about handgun carry, not long guns.

    At that time, unless you were special forces, a security guard, MP, boarding party member, etc, you were not issued a handgun and didn't recieve significant training with them. This includes most Army infantry and Marines.
     
    Last edited:

    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    27,588
    Wafflers/Fence sitters - People who object to government mandated training anything but recognize there could be some added value to it if it weren't full of BS and contradictory info.


    It's not Waffling . It"s two different ideas , that could potentially be seen as contradictory .

    1. Mandated Government / Gov't approved training or other subjective limitations upon a Fundamental Right is catagorically wrong .

    2. It is Wise & Prudent to gain and maintain skills with firearms and usage thereof . and knowledge of statutes and case law on use of force , and strategies to deal with lethal threat situiations .

    Both are true .
     

    Biggfoot44

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    27,588
    Didn’t read much past here because it keeps popping up as a common theme, but watch stations on ships are armed. You want to guess what they are armed with? A pistol, carried in a holster. All watch personnel are trained on this
    and live fire to qualify for watch duty. Everyone from the cooks to the gunners mates in order to stand in on watch. There is more than that, but just setting some expectations.
    But do the pistols in the holster also have ammunition ?

    Not trying to be a hole . Father was US Navy , including WWII , plus 10-ish Reserves afterwards


    Navy never trained him on firearms . When OD , issued him pistol without ammunition , as were everyone else shipboard. ( Being preexisting avid shooter & hunter , he availed himself of the back of the ship informal Famfire with everything up to 40mm .)
     

    LeadSled1

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 25, 2009
    3,997
    MD
    But do the pistols in the holster also have ammunition ?

    Not trying to be a hole . Father was US Navy , including WWII , plus 10-ish Reserves afterwards


    Navy never trained him on firearms . When OD , issued him pistol without ammunition , as were everyone else shipboard. ( Being preexisting avid shooter & hunter , he availed himself of the back of the ship informal Famfire with everything up to 40mm .)
    Yes they were loaded, chambered, and ready to fire. I did the formal training for the command, new sailors, and units coming in on our range
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    Thanks for your input. A lot of what I heard regarding the military (as a civilian who could not serve) is that folks in uniform do not receive training in the use of discretion that LEO's do. My understanding is that military training is, and I know this is an over simplification, more binary, meaning shoot the guy in the wrong uniform, and don't shoot guys in friendly uniforms.

    The last 20 years haven't been against uniforms
     

    44Dan44

    DD 214 Exempt
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 15, 2022
    205
    Owings, Maryland
    Lol ok then.

    In that case you also need to remove the exemption for all persons with DD214's from since... whenever up through the 2000's, because this is about handgun carry, not long guns.

    At that time, unless you were special forces, a security guard, MP, boarding party member, etc, you were not issued a handgun and didn't recieve significant training with them. This includes most Army infantry and Marines.
    You forgot us Army Combat Medics 1991-2001 I carried the M9 Beretta. There were shortages so some still had to carry a rifle in a all Medic company but in non-medical companies we were always accommodated.
     

    CanDoEZ

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 23, 2008
    2,553
    SoMD
    Yes. We were there, we lived it.

    The monster that O'Malley threw out there was an absolute abomination. We did our very best against that nonsense, and came up with relatively little to show for it. The exemption for vets (with which I do not agree, at all, but also do not begrudge) made the grabbers look decent and patriotic compared to the alternative. "See? We're only after reasonable gun control!"

    Mandatory training is absolute dog sh!t. It needs to fall as it is not consistent with our text, history, and tradition.

    Yeah their version of the “great compromise”. Judging from this thread (and many others before it) the MGA accomplished their mission.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    LGoodwin

    Active Member
    Feb 3, 2011
    4,675
    Cecil County
    The entire US Coast Guard is a federal Law Enforcement agency and an armed service.

    However, most are not trained on firearms.
    Link is to the USCG Basic Training schedule. I believe mandatory 9mm training and quals are done in weeks 4 and 5. ALL trainees are trained in their use.
     

    lazarus

    Active Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    11,558
    Link is to the USCG Basic Training schedule. I believe mandatory 9mm training and quals are done in weeks 4 and 5. ALL trainees are trained in their use.
    There didn't use to be mandatory instruction based on discussions with a couple of former coast guard members I know.

    As it stands today, you don't have to pass the qualification at all. https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/coast-guard-marksmanship-qualification-course.html So long as you don't do anything unsafe, you pass.
     

    teratos229

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    52,808
    Bel Air
    Yeah their version of the “great compromise”. Judging from this thread (and many others before it) the MGA accomplished their mission.
    Special classes will always create turmoil. It's human nature. That's why we shouldn't have any....
     

    CMSGT

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 2, 2022
    213
    You’re misinformed.

    Modern military servicemen over the past 20+ years have received hundreds of hours of training in the extremely restrictive rules of engagement used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Nobody facing the military in the past two decades was in uniform- the hostile forces were civilians carrying various firearms and explosives.

    The veterans who fought in Vietnam for 20+ years fought against enemy forces that rarely wore a uniform- guerillas and insurgents looked like everyone else in the neighborhood.

    In Afghanistan and Iraq, many of our people were shot and killed by local nationals wearing “friendly” police and army uniforms.
    Thank you for the reality check....:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     

    tlwatkinson

    Junior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    28
    I ask questions in an effort to become informed.

    I accept what you report regarding boots on the ground in SE Asia and the middle east who were in positions to encounter the enemy in all guises.

    There is a large number of service men and women serving aboard ships, at stateside bases and the like who were in no way anticipated to have the same encounters with the enemy as those mentioned earlier. Did these service men and women receive any training of the type we're discussing? Unless I am told otherwise by those with actual knowledge (for instance folks who served in those capacities), I suspect that training is provided on an as-needed basis. Can you address this? Will others?

    I don't assume reality, nor am I "butt hurt.' I ask questions that I hope, maybe naively so, will be answered straight up.
    I can tell you that there are any number of persons in the army that use a handgun as their issue weapon. They qualify with that weapon on a yearly basis.
     

    Neutron

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2014
    1,373
    severna park
    My DD214 exempted me from live fire for my South Carolina CWP. I did have to take the classroom portion of the training which mainly had to do with SC law. The training was ended with a 100 question written test. IIRC the training and test took about 1/2 day or somewhat less. Also it was one on one training, not group training. My trainer offered to let me use the simulator after the training was finished although it was not required. The simulator was an eye opener for shoot-no shoot scenarios. Very difficult to get it right.

    I don't think MD should require the 16 hours of training but a couple of hours of training on the law should be voluntary and something advisable if you plan on carrying here.

    I recently returned from a trip to a state where I can carry. Didn't carry once. I knew that I would be consuming alcohol most likely so no guns. If you think you're going to carry every time you leave the house, you may want to evaluate what you're going to be doing and where you're going. Lots of restricted areas. No booze for you!
     

    tlwatkinson

    Junior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    28
    Lol ok then.

    In that case you also need to remove the exemption for all persons with DD214's from since... whenever up through the 2000's, because this is about handgun carry, not long guns.

    At that time, unless you were special forces, a security guard, MP, boarding party member, etc, you were not issued a handgun and didn't recieve significant training with them. This includes most Army infantry and Marines.
    Tankers were issued handguns not M16's and probably others who worked in confined areas.
     

    Bullfrog

    Active Member
    Oct 8, 2009
    12,107
    Carroll County
    Tankers were issued handguns not M16's and probably others who worked in confined areas.

    Thanks for the correction.

    I only waded into this mess to try to correct some misunderstandings and outright misinformation from a few posters, pushing the idea that everyone with prior military service was an expert with a rifle and a handgun, which is not true.

    I don't think this discussion serves any useful purpose. I probably should have let it go.
     

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