How to properly beat a horse. Please allot 16 hours. This is mandatory.

[LGood48]

Did you actually read my examples? Or is it your ignorance of what the Federal Government considers the military?

National Health Service is considered a branch of the military. They do NOT attend basic training.

Coast Guard was part of the department of the treasury and now is part of Homeland security. They have basic training. They do not get firearms training or qualification in general. They get a DD214.

Guess what, ROTC officers do NOT have basic training. Yes, they DO receive firearms training, I'll grant that, but they do NOT attend basic training.

So again, not everyone "who served in the military" went to basic training. And even those who had some kind of basic training, never received firearms training even today.

The exemption reads "active, retired, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard.
The NHS and NOAA are what are considered Uniformed Services of which there are eight; The "Armed" forces (USA; USMC; USN; USAF; US Space Cmd; USCG) are the other 6.
There is a distinction between them and ONLY the six Armed forces qualify for the exemption.

 

[dblas]

Thanks for your input. A lot of what I heard regarding the military (as a civilian who could not serve) is that folks in uniform do not receive training in the use of discretion that LEO's do. My understanding is that military training is, and I know this is an over simplification, more binary, meaning shoot the guy in the wrong uniform, and don't shoot guys in friendly uniforms.

I've never been "down range" but those that have get an ROE (Rules Of Engagement), on who, what, when, where, why, to shoot. Probably a whole lot more restrictive that what any LEO gets.
As for LEO training, as someone who has certified LEO on the range, you would be amazed at how little, a large number, understand about "shoot, don't shoot".
I need to find the links, but the number of shots fired by a "regular citizen" in self defense vs a LEO in a shooting is a rediculous difference. The regular citizens averaged about 3 shots per incident with less than 1 miss, while LE incidents averaged 8 shots per officer with an average of 6 misses.

 

[dblas]

Umm...

The CCW training should cover the legal aspects to the new AO of wherever you are. The legal rules in one AO don't necessarily apply to another.

IMO it's worth the time to hear that; kind of like a briefing when you were in the military.

I agree unconstitutional but it is what it is for now.

YMMV

So...How would you apply that to states that are Constitutional Carry?

 

[JohnnyE]

I've never been "down range" but those that have get an ROE (Rules Of Engagement), on who, what, when, where, why, to shoot. Probably a whole lot more restrictive that what any LEO gets.
As for LEO training, as someone who has certified LEO on the range, you would be amazed at how little, a large number, understand about "shoot, don't shoot".
I need to find the links, but the number of shots fired by a "regular citizen" in self defense vs a LEO in a shooting is a rediculous difference. The regular citizens averaged about 3 shots per incident with less than 1 miss, while LE incidents averaged 8 shots per officer with an average of 6 misses.

I had some very old inaccurate notions, and I cannot come close to recalling the source.

I think the issue of whether a DD214 is a useful indicator of firearms proficiency and knowledge of MD ROE has received a more than enough attention at this point.

So...How would you apply that to states that are Constitutional Carry?

If I am not mistaken there is a strong consensus (with me among them) that proper training is valuable and should be taken voluntarily by anyone carrying concealed, but cannot be a condition for exercising a constitutional right.

 

[TheBert]

Good stuff.

Someone else correctly pointed out that Marine musicians are usually “direct hired” based on auditions, and rarely attend MCRD Parris Island or San Diego unless it’s for a change of command ceremony or other special event.

Marine Chaplains and attorneys (JAG) are directly commissioned and need not sit through OCS when sworn in.

All Marines risk death or dismemberment daily, in training, on deployments or even in routine administrative movement. (Same for all other servicemen.)

The President's own, US Marine Band, don't go to boot camp. The various division and wing bands are regular enlistees.

Chaplin's and MD's are detailed from the US Navy.

JAG officers are just like any other officer. Go through the system, TBS and then on to lawyering. JAG officers are not staff pukes, they are unrestricted line officers who can command marine formations.

There are direct commissions for people with special connections and skills but, it is not common.

 

[CMSGT]

The exemption reads "active, retired, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard.
The NHS and NOAA are what are considered Uniformed Services of which there are eight; The "Armed" forces (USA; USMC; USN; USAF; US Space Cmd; USCG) are the other 6.
There is a distinction between them and ONLY the six Armed forces qualify for the exemption.

Can you provide a referance for that distinction statement, from any MDSP web page???

 

[TheBert]

Did you actually read my examples? Or is it your ignorance of what the Federal Government considers the military?

National Health Service is considered a branch of the military. They do NOT attend basic training.

Coast Guard was part of the department of the treasury and now is part of Homeland security. They have basic training. They do not get firearms training or qualification in general. They get a DD214.

Guess what, ROTC officers do NOT have basic training. Yes, they DO receive firearms training, I'll grant that, but they do NOT attend basic training.

So again, not everyone "who served in the military" went to basic training. And even those who had some kind of basic training, never received firearms training even today.

The US Public Health Service commissioned corps is a uniformed service, they are not an armed service. The NOAA commissioned corps is a uniformed service, they are not an armed service.

The US Coast Guard is an law enforcement agency. USCG PO's and officers are often embarked on US Navy ships throughout the world with the power to arrest pirates and other nefarious actors for breaking US laws and such. The USCG carries firearms and operates firearms more the the US Navy.

 

[CMSGT]

The US Public Health Service commissioned corps is a uniformed service, they are not an armed service. The NOAA commissioned corps is a uniformed service, they are not an armed service.

The US Coast Guard is an law enforcement agency. USCG PO's and officers are often embarked on US Navy ships throughout the world with the power to arrest pirates and other nefarious actors for breaking US laws and such. The USCG carries firearms and operates firearms more the the US Navy.

Its my understanding that USCG light patrol boat crew members, are all qualified on multiple weapons, incloding pistol, light MG, shotgun, and in many cases 50cal MG.

 

[BurkeM]

Can you provide a referance for that distinction statement, from any MDSP web page???

 

[BurkeM]

Its my understanding that USCG light patrol boat crew members, are all qualified on multiple weapons, incloding pistol, light MG, shotgun, and in many cases 50cal MG.

The entire US Coast Guard is a federal Law Enforcement agency and an armed service.

 

[lazarus]

The entire US Coast Guard is a federal Law Enforcement agency and an armed service.

However, most are not trained on firearms.

 

[lazarus]

The US Public Health Service commissioned corps is a uniformed service, they are not an armed service. The NOAA commissioned corps is a uniformed service, they are not an armed service.

The US Coast Guard is an law enforcement agency. USCG PO's and officers are often embarked on US Navy ships throughout the world with the power to arrest pirates and other nefarious actors for breaking US laws and such. The USCG carries firearms and operates firearms more the the US Navy.

It'd be real interesting to see if MSP has rejected a training exemption for someone from a uniformed service that isn't the armed forces in submitting a DD214. I'd put odds on MSP waiving them through.

 

[platoonDaddy]

Surprised trainers aren’t just offering a class for exception personnel. The class would only cover the legal requirements of MD CARRY

 

[swinokur]

The CG only becomes part of the the armed services in time of war.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BurkeM]

Surprised trainers aren’t just offering a class for exception personnel. The class would only cover the legal requirements of MD CARRY

Excellent idea. Write up a lesson plan, rent a classroom, and start advertising here and on social media.

No need to register as a QHIC, as nobody would ever need a training certificate for their HGP.

 

[teratos]

Surprised trainers aren’t just offering a class for exception personnel. The class would only cover the legal requirements of MD CARRY

Someone is. It’s been posted around here somewhere. Sorry to be so specific.

 

[LoneWolf123]

Here’s the easiest way to solve all discussions….


1. Give up… the law is what it is. If you don’t like it.. go to court or lobby for it to change.

2. The “uniformed service” is a load of shit and a bunch of civilians wanting to play military without doing the real work and responsibility it takes to do it.

3. The coast guard is the bastard child of the armed services because of Congress.

4. Everyone who was in military service knows the only real military branch is the Marine Corps.

 

[teratos]

Here’s the easiest way to solve all discussions….


1. Give up… the law is what it is. If you don’t like it.. go to court or lobby for it to change.

2. The “uniformed service” is a load of shit and a bunch of civilians wanting to play military without doing the real work and responsibility it takes to do it.

3. The coast guard is the bastard child of the armed services because of Congress.

4. Everyone who was in military service knows the only real military branch is the Marine Corps.

Damned 22ers. We aren’t fvcking giving up, we’re just getting started!!!!

 

[JohnnyE]

Maybe the stigma of being a 13'er is fading...or maybe it's akin to being the healthiest person in the hospice?

 

[LoneWolf123]

find the audio clips from whatever amendment was offered to change the law and tell us their actual reasoning.

I wonder if it’s even what people think…