How Far Inside Md Would You Travel For Training?

[Blaster229]

Dang, it would be very cool to get to shoot with the GBRS guys. FAM and devgru instructors would offer skill sets that just don't exist in many places.

We'll see what tomorrow brings fo sho. I'm trying to get them up.

 

[4g64loser]

We're not going to be into this for a huge class money grab. 2 of us with 8-10 students tops. It allows for better span of control and quality instruction. Plus doing small classes like that allows better scheduling. 1 class on a Saturday, 1 on Sunday. Options for people to make it. I don't fancy having 20 plus students per.

Wasn't suggesting that you would run a bad line. Just agreeing with the guys posted observation of lousy range safety at facilities. I've seen some poop at my side job. The senior instructors are in a shit spot; the in house people are probationary employees til they pass. The feds who come through (just to shoot qual, they have their own training program) and fail create massive problems due to reshoot scheduling. Not to mention their bosses calling up and complaining about them not being passed.

Add in not enough eyes on the line and the inevitable happens; NDs.

 

[Blaster229]

Wasn't suggesting that you would run a bad line. Just agreeing with the guys posted observation of lousy range safety at facilities. I've seen some poop at my side job. The senior instructors are in a shit spot; the in house people are probationary employees til they pass. The feds who come through (just to shoot qual, they have their own training program) and fail create massive problems due to reshoot scheduling. Not to mention their bosses calling up and complaining about them not being passed.

Add in not enough eyes on the line and the inevitable happens; NDs.

We have seen crap before. Not on our previous careers though. We're big boys.

 

[Johnny5k]

I'll just take it from my own experience having done it with people already. Thanks for your input.

How long have you spent doing it? 200 hours is actually a VERY conservative estimate. Even in an advanced class, one guy very nearly lost a thumb. One guy shot himself AND someone else, (I didnt witness that, i trained with the husband of the someone else, while she was still recuperating). One beginner licked off a shot about 2 feet in front of my feet once. I became her coach at the urging of the instructors, and after 2 more days, I still wasnt comfortable taking my eyes off her, but she was way more confident, and I did not require 2 hands free at all times while she was shooting.

I'm not saying it can't necessarily be done safely, and probably lots of people would be interested, but the risk benefit analysis is way out of whack. If someone is not unconsciously competent, or at least consciously competent with the basics, the risks far outweigh the benefits. 100 attaboys is worth 1 Oh Shit in normal circumstances, with firearms the ratio expands considerably.

 

[4g64loser]

We have seen crap before. Not on our previous careers though. We're big boys.

I bet you have. I expect you also saw a higher standard of performance than the group of people I'm describing. You were clearly an Air Marshal and the group I'm describing are definitely not that....they work for a department that is very PC and not given to spending the time or money to shoot more than quarterly.

I'm almost tempted to pay for this guy johnny to be in your class. It sounds like an interesting one.

 

[Johnny5k]

I bet you have. I expect you also saw a higher standard of performance than the group of people I'm describing. You were clearly an Air Marshal and the group I'm describing are definitely not that....they work for a department that is very PC and not given to spending the time or money to shoot more than quarterly.

I'm almost tempted to pay for this guy johnny to be in your class. It sounds like an interesting one.

I'd love to join you. I've heard excellent things about Blasters training. Just sounds overly ambitious for an entry level class.

 

[Blaster229]

How long have you spent doing it? 200 hours is actually a VERY conservative estimate. Even in an advanced class, one guy very nearly lost a thumb. One guy shot himself AND someone else, (I didnt witness that, i trained with the husband of the someone else, while she was still recuperating). One beginner licked off a shot about 2 feet in front of my feet once. I became her coach at the urging of the instructors, and after 2 more days, I still wasnt comfortable taking my eyes off her, but she was way more confident, and I did not require 2 hands free at all times while she was shooting.

I'm not saying it can't necessarily be done safely, and probably lots of people would be interested, but the risk benefit analysis is way out of whack. If someone is not unconsciously competent, or at least consciously competent with the basics, the risks far outweigh the benefits. 100 attaboys is worth 1 Oh Shit in normal circumstances, with firearms the ratio expands considerably.

I have onwards of over 2000(conservatively) hours of training in my whole career as a Federal Air Marshal until I retired.
It'll be ok.

 

[Johnny5k]

I'd love to join you. I've heard excellent things about Blasters training.

I have onwards of over 2000(conservatively) hours of training in my whole career as a Federal Air Marshal until I retired.
It'll be ok.

You've spent 2000 hours training beginners? Or you have spent 2000 hours being trained?

I don't expect there were many beginners in your Air Marshal training.

 

[jrumann59]

How long have you spent doing it? 200 hours is actually a VERY conservative estimate. Even in an advanced class, one guy very nearly lost a thumb. One guy shot himself AND someone else, (I didnt witness that, i trained with the husband of the someone else, while she was still recuperating). One beginner licked off a shot about 2 feet in front of my feet once. I became her coach at the urging of the instructors, and after 2 more days, I still wasnt comfortable taking my eyes off her, but she was way more confident, and I did not require 2 hands free at all times while she was shooting.

I'm not saying it can't necessarily be done safely, and probably lots of people would be interested, but the risk benefit analysis is way out of whack. If someone is not unconsciously competent, or at least consciously competent with the basics, the risks far outweigh the benefits. 100 attaboys is worth 1 Oh Shit in normal circumstances, with firearms the ratio expands considerably.

yes because standing in front of paper will prepare carriers for RL. Training has to start some where beyond standing up in front of a bunch of paper targets X hours a year. I half expect for you to say most of people here probably shouldn't even own a gun.

 

[4g64loser]

I'd love to join you. I've heard excellent things about Blasters training. Just sounds overly ambitious for an entry level class.

I don't think this is "entry level" in the sense of describing what end is dangerous and the components of metallic cartridge, man. I believe blaster is just being modest. Might be the lower end of the dynamic shooting game but everyone has to crawl-walk-run.

If I can get off work, I have no doubt I would learn something new. Even if I have shot every position covered, I might get a new nugget of information on how to adjust my body to do it better. Maybe I would pick up other valuable elements of information. Never know. Even just getting in reps on things that aren't on the regular drill list is value. That lady you had to "coach" got value from the class in the form of support from another student. Did you get value from the experience or was it just holding you back from participating fully?

 

[Blaster229]

You've spent 2000 hours training beginners? Or you have spent 2000 hours being trained?

I don't expect there were many beginners in your Air Marshal training.

what's up? If I've taken even 1 person before and done it, then I can take 1 person at a time, 10 times and do it.
Slow down cowboy. I'm not "Running kit" "Running and gunning" No slicing the pie. No "distance and angles" to noobs.

2 of us, 8 -10 students makes for a manageable and fun day.
I'm working on something more your speed and you'll be able to "Run your kit". But that depends on a bigger entity. No time soon.

 

[Sealion]

Heck, I just got back home an 8 hour drive from Massachusetts. I picked up my 17 year old daughter and her two friends from a camp. I'll drive anywhere for training at this point.

I'd also like to ensure the instruction is set to the attendee knowledge level or expertise. I am NOT an expert, but I shoot regularly and go to classes. Since, I exclusively shot hangurns, I took an introductory AR class a while back. The instructor was an experienced LEO, but was incredibly condescending. The reason I took the intro was to get the basics not the attitude.

Based on your shooting posts, I'd welcome a chance to take a class you lead.

 

[Blaster229]

Heck, I just got back home an 8 hour drive from Massachusetts. I picked up my 17 year old daughter and her two friends from a camp. I'll drive anywhere for training at this point.

I'd also like to ensure the instruction is set to the attendee knowledge level or expertise. I am NOT an expert, but I shoot regularly and go to classes. Since, I exclusively shot hangurns, I took an introductory AR class a while back. The instructor was an experienced LEO, but was incredibly condescending. The reason I took the intro was to get the basics not the attitude.

Based on your shooting posts, I'd welcome a chance to take a class you lead.

Thanks for the words. I am just wanting a nice, relaxed time. Slow and deliberate giving people some types of shooting they wouldn't get at an indoor range behind a counter.
If we have to do something where the students lead the class with what they want to a point, so be it. 8 to 10 people, we can go as fast or slow as we need.
I won't be condescending, but we'll have jokes.

 

[hogarth]

I'm on record as flying as far as Nacogdoches, Texas (CSAT) and Little Rock, Arkansas (DARC), and driving as far as Muncie, Indiana (MTAC) and Alliance, Ohio (Alliance PD) for training. So I'd drive anywhere in MD, IF it works for my schedule. I'd be curious to see what Blaster might throw together.

As far as the whole "beginners and shooting positions" thing, I've seen many a more-or-less beginner show up at IDPA matches and immediately have to shoot around and through VTAC barricades and other such range devices.....when they are new they take it slow and I haven't seen anyone get an extra hole during a match or in a class yet.

 

[Blaster229]

I'm on record as flying as far as Nacogdoches, Texas (CSAT) and Little Rock, Arkansas (DARC), and driving as far as Muncie, Indiana (MTAC) and Alliance, Ohio (Alliance PD) for training. So I'd drive anywhere in MD, IF it works for my schedule. I'd be curious to see what Blaster might throw together.

As far as the whole "beginners and shooting positions" thing, I've seen many a more-or-less beginner show up at IDPA matches and immediately have to shoot around and through VTAC barricades and other such range devices.....when they are new they take it slow and I haven't seen anyone get an extra hole during a match or in a class yet.

I'm talking to DJ tomorrow. I'm trying to get them up to DelMarVa to hold a class. GBRS is your speed my friend.

 

[Blaster229]

It's past my bedtime. I'll leave y'all with this beautiful Virginia Beach moon.

 

[jrumann59]

Thanks for the words. I am just wanting a nice, relaxed time. Slow and deliberate giving people some types of shooting they wouldn't get at an indoor range behind a counter.
If we have to do something where the students lead the class with what they want to a point, so be it. 8 to 10 people, we can go as fast or slow as we need.
I won't be condescending, but we'll have jokes.

I haven't said it but I agree with what you are offering and would be game as well.

 

[smokey]

How long have you spent doing it? 200 hours is actually a VERY conservative estimate. Even in an advanced class, one guy very nearly lost a thumb. One guy shot himself AND someone else, (I didnt witness that, i trained with the husband of the someone else, while she was still recuperating). One beginner licked off a shot about 2 feet in front of my feet once. I became her coach at the urging of the instructors, and after 2 more days, I still wasnt comfortable taking my eyes off her, but she was way more confident, and I did not require 2 hands free at all times while she was shooting.

I'm not saying it can't necessarily be done safely, and probably lots of people would be interested, but the risk benefit analysis is way out of whack. If someone is not unconsciously competent, or at least consciously competent with the basics, the risks far outweigh the benefits. 100 attaboys is worth 1 Oh Shit in normal circumstances, with firearms the ratio expands considerably.

Blaster did say in his first posts in here that he would be running diagnostics on each student to guage their level of proficiency and then work up from there. Some of the scenarios he laid out are not earth shattering spetznaz stuff... it's just giving direction for thinking through how students could address different positions and then giving them the opportunity to practice at their ability level with coaching along the way.

Back when I shot idpa somewhat frequently, these kinds of scenarios were commonplace and competitors of all skill levels ran them.... only without instruction to go with it. Stages where you start sitting down, facing towards the shot timer, kneeling, etc are frequently part of a day's shooting.

I don't see why diagnosing current ability level, working them up to build proficiency, and then applying their skills in a variety of situations while being coached is the end of the world. I think you're either underestimating blaster's ability to run a class or overestimating the risks present.

 

[smokey]

I'm on record as flying as far as Nacogdoches, Texas (CSAT) and Little Rock, Arkansas (DARC), and driving as far as Muncie, Indiana (MTAC) and Alliance, Ohio (Alliance PD) for training. So I'd drive anywhere in MD, IF it works for my schedule. I'd be curious to see what Blaster might throw together.

As far as the whole "beginners and shooting positions" thing, I've seen many a more-or-less beginner show up at IDPA matches and immediately have to shoot around and through VTAC barricades and other such range devices.....when they are new they take it slow and I haven't seen anyone get an extra hole during a match or in a class yet.

Beat me to it.

 

[Johnny5k]

what's up? If I've taken even 1 person before and done it, then I can take 1 person at a time, 10 times and do it.
Slow down cowboy. I'm not "Running kit" "Running and gunning" No slicing the pie. No "distance and angles" to noobs.

2 of us, 8 -10 students makes for a manageable and fun day.
I'm working on something more your speed and you'll be able to "Run your kit". But that depends on a bigger entity. No time soon.

Haha, I think I got the size of ya now. I somehow mistook you for a young buck initially. My apologies. Not everyone here knows you and your history, and I'm bad with names anyhow.

I am a bit jaded about class descriptions, having taken beginner classes that weren't and vice versa.

I think you would do very well with such a class. I know not everyone is blessed to be able to take 6 weeks off to travel and train, and would like some exposure to these ideas. I still think a responsible person should rather spend their limited time mastering the basics, but I trust people to move at their own pace.

Why ask how far people will travel?? Looking for a marketing range?? Why bother, people will will be banging down your door. You could fill 6-8ppl a week easily, for 1 OR 2 days. You could be booked out for the next year within a few months. Who cares from where they come. People here have already attested to the quality of your training.