Help me understand this...

[AssMan]

I can and have purchased a variety of long guns out of state, cash and carry (with NICS instant) at an FFL dealer. What is it then that prevents me from doing the same thing with, say an AR, that is also cash and carry in the other state?

 

[PJDiesel]

I can and have purchased a variety of long guns out of state, cash and carry (with NICS instant) at an FFL dealer. What is it then that prevents me from doing the same thing with, say an AR, that is also cash and carry in the other state?

The fact that an out of State dealer is required to default to the laws of YOUR State of residency.

The whole situation is bullschit. Someone could go buy a shotgun and 250 rounds of ammo and go on a killing spree, no different than ANY other gun.

 

[tall.guy88]

I can and have purchased a variety of long guns out of state, cash and carry (with NICS instant) at an FFL dealer. What is it then that prevents me from doing the same thing with, say an AR, that is also cash and carry in the other state?

I know that some stores in WV (walmart) wont sell to out of state residents. That prevents them from having to memorize everyone else's laws.

The walmart in WV recently had a AR15 in stock and they told me it was cash and carry for WV residents only.

 

[dblas]

I can and have purchased a variety of long guns out of state, cash and carry (with NICS instant) at an FFL dealer. What is it then that prevents me from doing the same thing with, say an AR, that is also cash and carry in the other state?

MD Uniform Code 5-101, that lists 45 rifles as regulated and thus requiring the additional background checks performed by MSP.

 

[mac1_131]

Very interesting question.

MD regulated firearm law is mostly written to regulate the SALE of regulated firearms, not the purchase (until SB281 and the HQL kick in). If the sale is made out of state, MD law doesn't apply.

If you could get someone to sell to you with a NICS check, maybe you are OK?

My experience has been that out of state dealers don't want to sell a regulated firearm to a MD resident.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AssMan]

But the AR is not banned in MD (yet). Is it just a CYA then? They either won't sell it to me because they don't know MD laws, or for similar reasons, will only ship it to a MD FFL?

 

[dblas]

Very interesting question.

MD regulated firearm law is mostly written to regulate the SALE of regulated firearms, not the purchase (until SB281 and the HQL kick in). If the sale is made out of state, MD law doesn't apply.

If you could get someone to sell to you with a NICS check, maybe you are OK?

My experience has been that out of state dealers don't want to sell a regulated firearm to a MD resident.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

If you are purchasing a firearm of any type outside of your home state. The sale must comply with the laws in BOTH states per federal law. Maryland law very much applies with regards to regulated firearms.

 

[tall.guy88]

But the AR is not banned in MD (yet). Is it just a CYA then? They either won't sell it to me because they don't know MD laws, or for similar reasons, will only ship it to a MD FFL?

I think its CYA. Walmart changed their rules about a month after the sandy hook shooting. When all the politicians starting threatening to take away gun rights, walmart said they wont sell to out of staters. Sad thing is, I missed the chance to buy an AR15 for $647 because of it. Ugh!!!

 

[dblas]

But the AR is not banned in MD (yet). Is it just a CYA then? They either won't sell it to me because they don't know MD laws, or for similar reasons, will only ship it to a MD FFL?

See my above comment.

If you purchase a firearm outside your home state (MD), the sale must comply with the firearms laws of both states per federal law. So instead of knowing the laws of all 50 states, some choose to not sell out of state. Others will ship the AR to an FFL so that a 77R and MSP background check can be performed per MD law.

 

[AssMan]

Perhaps this is the answer...from the ATF website:

"Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]"

So, it looks like I'd have to find a licensed dealer in a state where AR's are cash and carry and said dealer either doesn't know or doesn't care that they are "regulated" in MD.

 

[mac1_131]

Probably you would have to show them HBARs are unregulated, but you could do that here if you could find one.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[dblas]

Perhaps this is the answer...from the ATF website:

"Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]"

So, it looks like I'd have to find a licensed dealer in a state where AR's are cash and carry and said dealer either doesn't know or doesn't care that they are "regulated" in MD.

At which point you (Knowingly) and the selling dealer are violating federal law as you posted it above. Or are you saying you need to find a dealer that will sell to you via transfer to a MD FFL?

 

[AssMan]

Well, to be clear, I'm not interested in actually doing this. I was at a Gander Mt. in Ohio over the weekend and was considering purchasing an O/U 20G but there was an M&P 15 there too. It got me thinking...what law was prohibiting an M&P purchase but not the shotgun as both are unregulated in OH. Clearly there are plenty of dealers that will take your money and ship it to a MD FFL.

It looks like the ATF rule is pretty clear that a face-to-face sale is legitimate only if it satisfies the laws of both states.

 

[j634]

Well, to be clear, I'm not interested in actually doing this. I was at a Gander Mt. in Ohio over the weekend and was considering purchasing an O/U 20G but there was an M&P 15 there too. It got me thinking...what law was prohibiting an M&P purchase but not the shotgun as both are unregulated in OH. Clearly there are plenty of dealers that will take your money and ship it to a MD FFL.

It looks like the ATF rule is pretty clear that a face-to-face sale is legitimate only if it satisfies the laws of both states.

dblas has the right idea..

I was in the Gander Mountain (Columbus) the weekend before and saw M&P (plus other ARs) and had similiar thoughts. So I decided to investigate deeper.

Ohio law restricts Ohio firearm dealer to only sell any firearms (regulated or not) to someone with an OHIO ID or ID from a border state. You having neither ID, the transfer must be through an FFL to your home state so the FFL will validate the law in your state.

I asked 4 stores in Ohio if they would ship to MD. They said "they thought so".. but went to check. All came back and said "oh.. no way to MD! Not even to an FFL"... ?

 

[dblas]

dblas has the right idea..

I was in the Gander Mountain (Columbus) the weekend before and saw M&P (plus other ARs) and had similiar thoughts. So I decided to investigate deeper.

Ohio law restricts Ohio firearm dealer to only sell any firearms (regulated or not) to someone with an OHIO ID or ID from a border state. You having neither ID, the transfer must be through an FFL to your home state so the FFL will validate the law in your state.

I asked 4 stores in Ohio if they would ship to MD. They said "they thought so".. but went to check. All came back and said "oh.. no way to MD! Not even to an FFL"... ?

Did you try Buckeye firearms? I know they ship to MD (or they used to).

 

[jonnyl]

Seems like there're a couple categories:

• Dealers knowing and following the laws of both states - they'd sell you an shotgun but not an AR or handgun
• Dealers not knowing and inadvertently breaking the law - haven't actually heard of this being done, but it was suggested above as a possibility
• Dealers doing a general CYA because they don't feel like dealing with it - regardless of the law they won't sell you the shotgun because you're not from these parts.

It was interesting when our illustrious president Miller of the Maryland Senate said that he'd never give his fingerprints to buy a gun, that he'd just head over to Virginia to buy it. He was suggesting he'd break several of the laws we're talking about.

 

[j634]

Did you try Buckeye firearms? I know they ship to MD (or they used to).

Did not try Buckeye Firearms. I did try New Cabela's, Gander Mountain (Columbus and Fairview), Vance's.

Vances was awsome. Lots of ARs on the wall. Rock River's in my hands but they would not ship to MD. Not even to my FFL. They had lots of Federal 223 in ammo cans, 500 rounds with a price of $289 on sale (marked down) for $279.

My truck drove very smooth on the way home..

 

[dblas]

Did not try Buckeye Firearms. I did try New Cabela's, Gander Mountain (Columbus and Fairview), Vance's.

Vances was awsome. Lots of ARs on the wall. Rock River's in my hands but they would not ship to MD. Not even to my FFL. They had lots of Federal 223 in ammo cans, 500 rounds with a price of $289 on sale (marked down) for $279.

My truck drove very smooth on the way home..

Vance's is always good, if you make it north of Columbus up to Ashland, check out Fin, Feather and Fur at I-71 and US RT 250.

I grew up in Ohio (damn I miss it), and have never stepped foot into Cabela's or Gander Mountain for firearms.

I always find better prices and better service at the local places.

 

[AvidRider]

dblas has the right idea..

I was in the Gander Mountain (Columbus) the weekend before and saw M&P (plus other ARs) and had similiar thoughts. So I decided to investigate deeper.

Ohio law restricts Ohio firearm dealer to only sell any firearms (regulated or not) to someone with an OHIO ID or ID from a border state. You having neither ID, the transfer must be through an FFL to your home state so the FFL will validate the law in your state.

I asked 4 stores in Ohio if they would ship to MD. They said "they thought so".. but went to check. All came back and said "oh.. no way to MD! Not even to an FFL"... ?

Gander Mountain WILL ship to to a Gander in Maryland. They just charge $25 for shipping, and no FFL transfer fee. I was at GB in York, PA to have my MP40 handgun transferred to the Salisbury GB. Did the paperwork 4/20 and waiting. I've also been told by GB employees that any gun on their website can be shipped to the Salisbury store providing it meets MD law, such as magazine capacity.

So I went there on Saturday and put an MP15 Sport on layaway!