HB0004 Rifles and Shotguns - Secondary Transactions

[Art3]

I think everything is an infringement, don’t get me wrong, but opening the background check to everyone to skip State involvement would be a means to their ends that don’t make things tedious. That’s not their point, though.

Absolutely it is an infringement...but, you know...MD We are going to get infringed on big time this year. We'll fight the good fight against the LQL, using all the arguments they've ignored before. What if, during that testimony, we all said, "let's drop this expensive bill, and revisit Del Atterbeary's modified HB4, with the amendment providing for public background checks"

They could pass something (like they have been mandated to), but it would be something tolerable...they could even claim bipartisan.

 

[JohnMD1022]

Which is a violation of Federal law.

18 U.S. Code § 926 - Rules and regulations

Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986

No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established.

 

[jefflac02]

I’m all about the convenience of an app to do a face to face. However, if we think about the purpose of the bill. Clearly it’s designed to either catch someone who doesn’t know the bill/law exists. Or to nail someone post crime when the gun they sold is used in a crime.

This is one I can guaran-damn-tee I won’t comply to. And let them prove otherwise. If you do biz with those you know. No way for the gov to enforce this bill.


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[jefflac02]

Soo...if no one here sees any problems with background checks that we are able to do ourselves, maybe that's the message we should start spamming our reps with about this and the Senate bill? I'm sure the few friendly reps would love to be able to offer something reasonable that we were all behind.



I'm not smart enough to see if there would be any unintented consequences for us...so I didn't want to push it without running it by the brain trust first.

In an ideal world, an app as you suggested would be the way to go. Thumbs up or thumbs down. No other record of transaction.

I agree that we should be going to our pro 2A senators at this point to offer common sense amendments that don’t violate the constitution. No one wants a firearm they’ve sold to be used to harm others. I still don’t truly feel this bill is designed to prevent that. At all. Because these transactions aren’t where the criminals get their firearms.


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[Raineman]

Art, I see your point, and would agree that if it is going there, that is the way to do it. A ZERO cost to us, and a way we can do it on the spot, anywhere, any time, still with NO registration. Yes, it is an infringement, though it is something that would be in the "COMPLY" column, until SCOTUS whacks it down.

However...that is not their intent. Their intent is to COMPLETELY STOP ALL transactions. Making it more difficult and costly is their current increment. This option falls in the "WILL NOT COMPLY" column.

 

[jefflac02]

Art, I see your point, and would agree that if it is going there, that is the way to do it. A ZERO cost to us, and a way we can do it on the spot, anywhere, any time, still with NO registration. Yes, it is an infringement, though it is something that would be in the "COMPLY" column, until SCOTUS whacks it down.

However...that is not their intent. Their intent is to COMPLETELY STOP ALL transactions. Making it more difficult and costly is their current increment. This option falls in the "WILL NOT COMPLY" column.

^THIS. And our side as a group of individuals are hard to coordinate. I’m going to say that Jeff H’s organizing skills are greatly missed here on MDS. Week 1 has definitely caught our community sleeping (we know this was their intention) there is still time. But i fear if we can’t get some semblance of organization and a plan together. We are in big trouble this year.

Those of us who are newer in recent years are up for the fight, but like an good army we need a leader to step in and take charge. He or she is out there. As individuals, we can all do our part in the fight. Just like the militias of our founding, us Patriots in MD can fight back this session.
If we don’t get organized, we are doomed to fail. I’ll be reaching out to those I know from here to do my part. Will you?


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[Doctor_M]

I was hopeful that the admins and mods here would have granted Rack an amnesty... not sure if it is in the cards, but I would certainly be on board with it.

 

[rbird7282]

I was hopeful that the admins and mods here would have granted Rack an amnesty... not sure if it is in the cards, but I would certainly be on board with it.

That ship sailed long ago


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[PowPow]

Mike D posted the list of pre-filed bills on Dec 20th. As soon as I saw the HB4 hearing was scheduled, I posted this OP.

This information is all available to the public on the General Assembly web site. It is all here:

Maryland General Assembly

Take some time to look around. They redesigned it this year.

I'm on that site every day. I enjoy watching the legiscritters in their natural habitat. It truly should be a sport enjoyed by all Marylanders. Most of us need a handicap when playing the sport, since they dress and speak in strange ways and use the word "certain" several dozen times in a single bill description.

The MSI and MSRPA have nice bill trackers that may be used for the overview and to identify at a glance which ones are those to OPPOSE.

Nothing, however, can replace your participation in the process. No amount of encouragement or organizing by any one or a handful of people should replace your own organizing. Only you know your schedule and commitment to participate. Failure to do your own homework and participate could come with a high price.

 

[jefflac02]

Mike D posted the list of pre-filed bills on Dec 20th. As soon as I saw the HB4 hearing was scheduled, I posted this OP.



This information is all available to the public on the General Assembly web site. It is all here:



Maryland General Assembly



Take some time to look around. They redesigned it this year.



I'm on that site every day. I enjoy watching the legiscritters in their natural habitat. It truly should be a sport enjoyed by all Marylanders. Most of us need a handicap when playing the sport, since they dress and speak in strange ways and use the word "certain" several dozen times in a single bill description.



The MSI and MSRPA have nice bill trackers that may be used for the overview and to identify at a glance which ones are those to OPPOSE.



Nothing, however, can replace your participation in the process. No amount of encouragement or organizing by any one or a handful of people should replace your own organizing. Only you know your schedule and commitment to participate. Failure to do your own homework and participate could come with a high price.

Excellent points. I submitted my written testimony to both of my elected officials offices for all 3 (ended up being 2 bill hearings). Unfortunately owning a business and separately working a full time career, I wasn’t able to make it in Person this early in the session). I don’t think there is any mistake in them spreading out the bills so far. Divide and conquer so the opposition can’t organize effectively to mount a offense during the hearing. HB4 is just an abomination.


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[shershot99]

Excellent points. I submitted my written testimony to both of my elected officials offices for all 3 (ended up being 2 bill hearings). Unfortunately owning a business and separately working a full time career, I wasn’t able to make it in Person this early in the session). I don’t think there is any mistake in them spreading out the bills so far. Divide and conquer so the opposition can’t organize effectively to mount a offense during the hearing. HB4 is just an abomination.


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I wrote all my people too but they are already on our side. I agree that this bill is completely unenforceable anyway. I believe it wouldn't stand up in court as well. Just stick to people you know and we all should be fine. Its a shame that it has come to that.

 

[knovotny]

Mike D posted the list of pre-filed bills on Dec 20th. As soon as I saw the HB4 hearing was scheduled, I posted this OP.

This information is all available to the public on the General Assembly web site. It is all here:

Maryland General Assembly

Take some time to look around. They redesigned it this year.

I'm on that site every day. I enjoy watching the legiscritters in their natural habitat. It truly should be a sport enjoyed by all Marylanders. Most of us need a handicap when playing the sport, since they dress and speak in strange ways and use the word "certain" several dozen times in a single bill description.

The MSI and MSRPA have nice bill trackers that may be used for the overview and to identify at a glance which ones are those to OPPOSE.

Nothing, however, can replace your participation in the process. No amount of encouragement or organizing by any one or a handful of people should replace your own organizing. Only you know your schedule and commitment to participate. Failure to do your own homework and participate could come with a high price.

This. Many people have also offered to help others through the process. There were a lot of new faces there this year. Lots of excellent testimony was given. I appreciate what Jeff H has done. But you can show up without him telling you to.

Looking at the trackers, it is looking like they are scheduling gun bills on Wednesdays. Also, with less people and lines, you could come to sign in closer to the cut off time. Or ask one of the friendly legislators to sign you in. Del Arikan's staffer Colleen always has a list of people that she is signing in that can't get there early.

 

[hillbilly grandpa]

Do we know of any crimes more serious than violation of the proposed law that carry potential sentences less severe than the proposed ones? I'm just looking for ammunition to bolster my argument.

 

[hillbilly grandpa]

Is there a coming bill to institute an LQL? I've been looking and I may just have overlooked it. Thanks.

 

[lazarus]

Is there a coming bill to institute an LQL? I've been looking and I may just have overlooked it. Thanks.

Not yet. Last year these were packaged together, but this year they pulled it out. Might see a separate one later.

For worse crimes with more sever penalties, theft of a firearm carries a lower maximum possible penalty (someone mentioned 6-months, not sure if that is correct as I haven’t looked at statute).

 

[Art3]

Is there a coming bill to institute an LQL? I've been looking and I may just have overlooked it. Thanks.

I've heard that it is in the works. It would certainly make this bill completely moot.

I'm surprised I didn't get a lot of flack for suggesting what would almost sound like a "compromise" with the DIY instant check. Katie is kinda buds with Del. Lauren Awesome (I always misspell her last name ). I'll see if she can pass the word that DIY NICS (obviously without registration) has the gun folks tentative approval. If that can be worked into the bill...into Atterbeary's bill...without us kicking and screaming against it, maybe she'll want to push her bill more than the LQL.

I feel like we're going to get pooped on regardless (in my mind, I use a more sexual metaphor...but, kids might be watching ). This is asking them to poop on our butt, instead of our face or hair. If getting pooped on is absolutely inevitable, I don't want my face pooped into.

Honestly, being able to run a NICS check (for free) willy-nilly on anyone seems like it could be a nice feature, outside of the firearms world...like craigslist, or babysitters, or...whatever.

I certainly like it better than having to get an LQL, or going to an FFL to lend a rifle to my brother from another mother.

 

[PowPow]

Katie is kinda buds with Del. Lauren Awesome (I always misspell her last name ). I'll see if she can pass the word that DIY NICS (obviously without registration) has the gun folks tentative approval. If that can be worked into the bill...into Atterbeary's bill...without us kicking and screaming against it, maybe she'll want to push her bill more than the LQL.

Please, Art, just speak for yourself. It certainly does not have any such approval, tentatively or otherwise, from me.

If they're going to pass HB4, they should just pass it as is. I'm certainly not willing to offer compromise against my core belief that background checks when applied to firearms transfers are intrusive, unconstitutional, and ineffective. They are more about control than anything else. My delegate, Atterbeary, knows this. She is serving the Kool-Aid. I'm not drinking any of it.

 

[Art3]

Please, Art, just speak for yourself. It certainly does not have any such approval, tentatively or otherwise, from me.

If they're going to pass HB4, they should just pass it as is. I'm certainly not willing to offer compromise against my core belief that background checks when applied to firearms transfers are intrusive, unconstitutional, and ineffective. They are more about control than anything else. My delegate, Atterbeary, knows this. She is serving the Kool-Aid. I'm not drinking any of it.

Ok. That's why I put it out here.

 

[Mark75H]

Please, Art, just speak for yourself. It certainly does not have any such approval, tentatively or otherwise, from me.

If they're going to pass HB4, they should just pass it as is. I'm certainly not willing to offer compromise against my core belief that background checks when applied to firearms transfers are intrusive, unconstitutional, and ineffective. They are more about control than anything else. My delegate, Atterbeary, knows this. She is serving the Kool-Aid. I'm not drinking any of it.

I second this

 

[PowPow]

Ok. That's why I put it out here.

No prob. If you cede them on background checks, next it will be permits to possess (like Illinois's FOID). After that, it will be social credit scores to maintain your permit. After that, it will be a mandatory buy back to keep your permit. When does it stop? When you and I are disarmed.