Guns I already own?

[Safetech]

I opened what I thought was my C&R, only to find the application in the envelope. Also enclosed was a letter, stating that I left out my SS#. (It's kind of a stupid form layout, and I totally missed it.)

SS# added, and I'll mail it back on Monday.

Here's a question that I'm wondering about...

I already owned several guns that are C&R, given/left to me by my father and grandfather.

If I have to record everything I purchase once I get my C&R, is there something else I have to do to establish that I already owned certain guns before I got the C&R, and that's why they are not in the "bound book"?

(Sorry if this is a stupid question.)

 

[Boom Boom]

Do nothing. C&R guns you owned prior to getting your C&R do not go into your bound book unless you sell or other wise transfer possession of them while you have the license. Once the license expires, if you don't renew, you can toss the bound book. Also, don't record "everything" in the bound book, just C&R, not modern or antique.

 

[safecracker]

Jeez Bobby, what do you want with those "old antique" guns???

 

[Gbh]

The only guns that you log in your C/R book are guns you used your C/R license (FFL 03) to purchase. It's not uncommon fot C/R license holders to purchase C/R eligible guns in their home state and they can not use their C/R license to do so. An example would be if you come across a great find in Maryland. You would not be able to use your C/R license to purchase it. It would just be a regulated or non-regulated (depending on what the firearm is) MD transaction.

I bought a Mosin M44 rifle for $99 off the rack of a Md dealer the other day. It won't go in my C/R logbook because it was just a Md long gun purchase. My C/R license could not have been used within my home state. I also have a East German Makarov waiting paperwork to come back at another Md FFL. Same deal. Great find but the C/R couldn't help me.

EDIT read posts below for more accurate info. I was mistaken.

 

[Alphabrew]

The only guns that you log in your C/R book are guns you used your C/R license (FFL 03) to purchase. It's not uncommon fot C/R license holders to purchase C/R eligible guns in their home state and they can not use their C/R license to do so. An example would be if you come across a great find in Maryland. You would not be able to use your C/R license to purchase it. It would just be a regulated or non-regulated (depending on what the firearm is) MD transaction.

I bought a Mosin M44 rifle for $99 off the rack of a Md dealer the other day. It won't go in my C/R logbook because it was just a Md long gun purchase. My C/R license could not have been used within my home state. I also have a East German Makarov waiting paperwork to come back at another Md FFL. Same deal. Great find but the C/R couldn't help me.

I just got my C&R, so I have not done this yet, but I'm fairly certain you can use your FFL03 to buy C&R long guns in MD and it saves you from doing the NICS check. C&R handguns are still regulated in MD and, you are correct, the C&R license won't help you with those if you purchase them from a dealer or private citizen in MD. Still have to do the MSP paperwork, which is stupid.

 

[pigfrmr]

I've done a C&R transfer in Md, from an 07 FFL........"bound book to bound book", nothing but exchanging license copies and bill of sale

 

[Gbh]

I'm fairly certain you can use your FFL03 to buy C&R long guns in MD and it saves you from doing the NICS check.

I've done a C&R transfer in Md, from an 07 FFL........"bound book to bound book", nothing but exchanging license copies and bill of sale

I'll look into that. Thanks. I've always considered the C/R to be designed for interstate transactions and that it does no good for in-state transactions. One phone call will clear it up.

 

[Hi-Torque]

I bought a Mosin M44 rifle for $99 off the rack of a Md dealer the other day.

Wait did you say $99 for an M44? I hope the rack was full of them, and you PM me where the rack is before the masses find out...

I've been asked if I had a C&R when purchasing a Mosin in Maryland in a proper gun shop. I was told there was no NICS if I had one (at that particular location). Is it possible for a dealer to have a C&R bound book to sell from, otherwise it's a standard long-rifle sale with NICS? I did the NICS, so I don't know how it would have gone down if I had a C&R at the time.

 

[Hi-Torque]

I've done a C&R transfer in Md, from an 07 FFL........"bound book to bound book", nothing but exchanging license copies and bill of sale

This clearly answers my question about a typical MD dealer selling to a C&R licensee. It even answered it before I asked the question. Must stop reading from the newest post up...hehe

 

[Gbh]

Wait did you say $99 for an M44? I hope the rack was full of them, and you PM me where the rack is before the masses find out..

There was one. Not perfect, arsenal repaired stock but shoots great. Dealer bought it back from a customer he sold it to a long time ago. I saw it and asked how much. He sold it to me for just a couple of bucks over what he bought it for. My local dealers take really good care of me.

I think I bought it right before my C\R came in the mail but I would not expect to add a standard MD purchase with a 4473 into the bound book. Only purchases withnthe C/R license like an out of state purchase.

 

[Funbrit]

I have never had an issue buying C&R eligible guns in MD with my C&R, bound book to bound book is how it is always treated, having the FFL03 would be pointless to have if you couldn't use in the state where you live.

 

[Gbh]

having the FFL03 would be pointless to have if you couldn't use in the state where you live.

I beg to differ and so does the P1 that arrived at my house from SOG last week.

 

[cmecha]

none of my purchase's have been in my bound book as i never used my C&R to acquire them.

 

[Boom Boom]

The only guns that you log in your C/R book are guns you used your C/R license (FFL 03) to purchase.

none of my purchase's have been in my bound book as i never used my C&R to acquire them.

All C&R-eligible guns purchased while have you have a C&R go into your bound book, regardless of whether or not your C&R is used to buy them. For example, if you buy a C&R handgun in MD through the normal process (77R, 4473, waiting period), then that purchase goes into your bound book.

Refer to 27 CFR 478.125 - Record of receipt and disposition, Section (f).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.125
"Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics."

It says nothing about using the license to make the C&R purchase/acquisition. Intentionally so. Within the packet the ATF sent me as part of getting the license, it clearly states to make a bound book entry for all C&R purchases/acquisitions made while the license is active even if the license is not used to do it.

 

[Catch-10-22]

So if I bought a Garand and Carbine from CMP, they need to go in my bound book? Or another older cash and carry or face to face eligible rifle that happens to be C&R eligible? Doesn't sound right.

 

[Catch-10-22]

Nope, I was wrong and Boom Boom was right. The prevailing opinion on the CMP forums and elsewhere is to log C&R eligible guns in your bound book regardless of whether they were acquired using your 03. Better to over-log than under-log. I learned something today and have something to do when I get home from work.

 

[mvee]

All C&R-eligible guns purchased while have you have a C&R go into your bound book, regardless of whether or not your C&R is used to buy them. For example, if you buy a C&R handgun in MD through the normal process (77R, 4473, waiting period), then that purchase goes into your bound book.

Refer to 27 CFR 478.125 - Record of receipt and disposition, Section (f).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.125
"Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics."

It says nothing about using the license to make the C&R purchase/acquisition. Intentionally so. Within the packet the ATF sent me as part of getting the license, it clearly states to make a bound book entry for all C&R purchases/acquisitions made while the license is active even if the license is not used to do it.

This is correct. All C&R eligible firearms obtained while you hold a license get logged in the book.

 

[Gbh]

All C&R-eligible guns purchased while have you have a C&R go into your bound book, regardless of whether or not your C&R is used to buy them. For example, if you buy a C&R handgun in MD through the normal process (77R, 4473, waiting period), then that purchase goes into your bound book.

Refer to 27 CFR 478.125 - Record of receipt and disposition, Section (f).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.125
"Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics."

It says nothing about using the license to make the C&R purchase/acquisition. Intentionally so. Within the packet the ATF sent me as part of getting the license, it clearly states to make a bound book entry for all C&R purchases/acquisitions made while the license is active even if the license is not used to do it.

Thanks for clearing that up. I appreciate it.

 

[Threeband]

This is correct. All C&R eligible firearms obtained while you hold a license get logged in the book.

Further, any C&R you owned before you got your license, yet sell after you got you license, has to be logged in and out.

Say you bought a Mosin two years ago, before you got your license. Or maybe you got a Garand from the CMP several years ago. You don't log it in as long as you keep it. But if you sell it, or throw it away, or otherwise dispose of it, you must log it in (acquired from "personal collection") then immediately log it back out.

 

[Machodoc]

All C&R-eligible guns purchased while have you have a C&R go into your bound book, regardless of whether or not your C&R is used to buy them. For example, if you buy a C&R handgun in MD through the normal process (77R, 4473, waiting period), then that purchase goes into your bound book.

Refer to 27 CFR 478.125 - Record of receipt and disposition, Section (f).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.125
"Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics."

It says nothing about using the license to make the C&R purchase/acquisition. Intentionally so. Within the packet the ATF sent me as part of getting the license, it clearly states to make a bound book entry for all C&R purchases/acquisitions made while the license is active even if the license is not used to do it.

^^ THIS! The only C&Rs that you don't need to enter into your bound book are ones that you already owned when you got your license. Even then, if you decide to sell one, you enter it into your bound book as having been obtained from your personal collection, then enter the sale. To be squeaky clean, you can enter all of your already-owned C&Rs in your bound book as of the date that you got your license. It doesn't hurt anything, and you can toss the book when your license expires. The only reason not to do so is if you think the government is going to break down your door, make you account for all the firearms in the bound book, then take them away. If that was going to happen, they'd search the house and find them anyway.

It's really important that you follow these laws. You can't tell the BATFE that you didn't enter a C&R firearm into your bound book because you didn't use your C&R license to buy it, and someone on MDS said you didn't have to in that case. Yes, you could probably get by with it, but that's not how the law says to do it.