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Guess where I carried megathread

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  • 5pins

    Junior Member
    Mar 23, 2014
    39
    Charles Town WV
    Living in West Virginia, I finally had a need to drive up to Fredrick today at lunch. It was nice not having to plan ahead and make sure I was not armed.
     

    antco

    Active Member
    Apr 28, 2010
    6,256
    Calvert, MD
    I'm no lawyer, and I trained and learned to carry in the freedom of Arizona, and I've only spent 15 minutes searching, but my current belief is carry at BWI IS legal with a valid MD W&C or LEOSA status as long as you remain on the "open" side of the terminal. DO NOT get into the security checkpoint lines. The video and all verbiage on the MDTA link above appears to me to be focused entirely on carry or possession through and on the secured side of TSA's security barricade.

    Open and concealed carry is 100% legal at Phoenix Sky Harbor airport for anyone and everyone legally allowed to carry in any other public setting. I see nothing that would keep the same from applying to BWI, DCA, IAD, or others. There's a clear line between the secured side and the public side of an airport.
     

    BurtonRW

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    838
    Pasadena
    Hey, guys...

    COMAR 11.03.01.09(C), which is in the Transportation regs specifically pertaining to BWI, reads:

    C. Weapons.
    (1) Weapons, except those properly packaged for shipment, are prohibited.
    (2) Exceptions to §C(1) of this regulation are:
    (a) Law enforcement officers of the federal government, of the State of Maryland, its political subdivisions, and of the Maryland Aviation Administration and any other State agency, if weapons are required in performance of their duties;
    (b) Enplaning and deplaning passengers authorized by 49 CFR §1544.219 to carry weapons aboard aircraft; and
    (c) Uniformed employees of licensed armored transport services under contract to any tenant of the Airport carrying handguns when actually transporting monies or valuables.
    (3) Discharge of any weapon on the Airport except in the performance of official duties or in the lawful defense of life or property is prohibited.
    (4) Furnishing, giving, selling, or trading any weapon or simulated weapon on the Airport is prohibited. Toys sold by Airport concessionaires and approved by the Administration are excepted from this regulation.


    There is no differentiation between restricted and unrestricted, sterile vs. pre-security, or even parking garage vs. terminal in this section that I can find.

    www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/comarhtml/11/11.03.01.09.htm

    There's no exception for permit holders, either, and I can't imagine they'd treat LEOSA any differently without saying so.

    -Rob
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    41,268
    Glen Burnie
    Hey, guys...

    COMAR 11.03.01.09(C), which is in the Transportation regs specifically pertaining to BWI, reads:

    C. Weapons.
    (1) Weapons, except those properly packaged for shipment, are prohibited.
    (2) Exceptions to §C(1) of this regulation are:
    (a) Law enforcement officers of the federal government, of the State of Maryland, its political subdivisions, and of the Maryland Aviation Administration and any other State agency, if weapons are required in performance of their duties;
    (b) Enplaning and deplaning passengers authorized by 49 CFR §1544.219 to carry weapons aboard aircraft; and
    (c) Uniformed employees of licensed armored transport services under contract to any tenant of the Airport carrying handguns when actually transporting monies or valuables.
    (3) Discharge of any weapon on the Airport except in the performance of official duties or in the lawful defense of life or property is prohibited.
    (4) Furnishing, giving, selling, or trading any weapon or simulated weapon on the Airport is prohibited. Toys sold by Airport concessionaires and approved by the Administration are excepted from this regulation.


    There is no differentiation between restricted and unrestricted, sterile vs. pre-security, or even parking garage vs. terminal in this section that I can find.

    www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/comarhtml/11/11.03.01.09.htm

    There's no exception for permit holders, either, and I can't imagine they'd treat LEOSA any differently without saying so.

    -Rob
    All these refer to the secure side of the airport. Concourses and terminals.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore

    No, it isn't
    COMAR regulations are pretty clear- no firearms on State property (and the State owns the entre airport and surrounding parking lots, roads, pathways and so on) per:

    COMAR 04.05.01.03B. Except for official purposes and by authorized personnel, an individual on the property may not carry open or concealed firearms, explosives, incendiary devices, or dangerous or deadly weapons.

    You might not be prosecuted, but you will be directed to leave the property if discovered to be carrying. TSA also has jurisdiction over the entire terminal, and they are also looking for firearms, ammunition and explosives. It would not be pleasant if a K-9 alerted on you for explosive residue.

    In the traffic loop, you're unlikely to be noticed if staying in your vehicle.

    TSA Fines

    Under federal law, the TSA has the authority to assess civil penalties of up to $13,000 for weapons violations. Typically, a first offense for carrying a handgun into a checkpoint is $3,900.

    In 2019, the TSA confiscated 4,432 guns at security checkpoints in US airports nationwide. 87% percent of those guns were loaded. With the total number of guns consociated up 7% since 2017, more and more people each year are forgetting their firearms in their carry-on baggage.

    According to former TSA federal security director at Midway Airport, Kevin McCarthy, Most people just forget . . [t]he two most common excuses are, ‘I didn’t know it was there’ and ‘I just forgot.’ The ones we’ve encountered don’t have any ill intent.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    Is there any MD restriction or Mall policy on conceal carrying at Montgomery Mall in Bethesda? I'm completely unfamiliar with the place, so I want to be sure before I'd ever go there. FWIW, the place is turning for the worse.... which is why I'm asking. Thanks!
    That would be a place that the County Council considers a "place of public assembly" and an incident there would be heavily frowned upon by the current State's Attorney, John McCarthy (D). Not expressly prohibited, unless you carr a "ghost gun" or unserialized handgun (see Bill 4-21 below)

    Bill 21-22 has not been enacted yet, but is a very strong indicator of how you might be treated.​


    MoCo 4-21: (from MSI) On June 16, 2021, we filed an emergency motion for partial summary judgment on three of our counts against Montgomery County's enactment of Bill 4-21. The motion seeks to enjoin the County from enforcing their new illegal laws which will go into effect on July 16th without action from the Court. Find the motion HERE and the memorandum in support HERE. As we have stated previously, we will not sit idle while politicians make criminals of ordinary and law-abiding residents. You can learn more and find updates about this case at tinyurl.com/msivmoco.

    ------------------------

     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    What happens when "requested to leave"? Is it a "trespass"? Thanks!
    It becomes trespassing if you REFUSE to leave.


    2010 Maryland Code
    CRIMINAL LAW
    TITLE 6 - CRIMES AGAINST PROPERTY
    Subtitle 4 - Trespass
    Section 6-403 - Wanton trespass on private property.

    § 6-403. Wanton trespass on private property.




    (a) Prohibited - Entering and crossing property.- A person may not enter or cross over private property or board the boat or other marine vessel of another, after having been notified by the owner or the owner's agent not to do so, unless entering or crossing under a good faith claim of right or ownership.

    (b) Prohibited - Remaining on property.- A person may not remain on private property including the boat or other marine vessel of another, after having been notified by the owner or the owner's agent not to do so.

    (c) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to:

    (1) for a first violation, imprisonment not exceeding 90 days or a fine not exceeding $500 or both;

    (2) for a second violation occurring within 2 years after the first violation, imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both; and

    (3) for each subsequent violation occurring within 2 years after the preceding violation, imprisonment not exceeding 1 year or a fine not exceeding $2,500 or both.

    (d) Construction of section.- This section prohibits only wanton entry on private property.

    (e) Applicability to housing projects.- This section also applies to property that is used as a housing project and operated by a housing authority or State public body, as those terms are defined in Division II of the Housing and Community Development Article, if an authorized agent of the housing authority or State public body gives the required notice specified in subsection (a) or (b) of this section.




    [An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 577(a)(2), (b); 2002, ch. 26, § 2; 2006, ch. 64; 2010, chs. 334, 335.]
     

    Sunrise

    Member
    Aug 18, 2020
    548
    Capital Region
    That would be a place that the County Council considers a "place of public assembly" and an incident there would be heavily frowned upon by the current State's Attorney, John McCarthy (D). Not expressly prohibited, unless you carr a "ghost gun" or unserialized handgun (see Bill 4-21 below)

    Bill 21-22 has not been enacted yet, but is a very strong indicator of how you might be treated.​


    MoCo 4-21: (from MSI) On June 16, 2021, we filed an emergency motion for partial summary judgment on three of our counts against Montgomery County's enactment of Bill 4-21. The motion seeks to enjoin the County from enforcing their new illegal laws which will go into effect on July 16th without action from the Court. Find the motion HERE and the memorandum in support HERE. As we have stated previously, we will not sit idle while politicians make criminals of ordinary and law-abiding residents. You can learn more and find updates about this case at tinyurl.com/msivmoco.

    ------------------------


    Thanks. I'll take a look at this.
     

    Sunrise

    Member
    Aug 18, 2020
    548
    Capital Region
    It becomes trespassing if you REFUSE to leave.


    2010 Maryland Code

    CRIMINAL LAW

    TITLE 6 - CRIMES AGAINST PROPERTY

    Subtitle 4 - Trespass

    Section 6-403 - Wanton trespass on private property.

    § 6-403. Wanton trespass on private property.




    (a) Prohibited - Entering and crossing property.- A person may not enter or cross over private property or board the boat or other marine vessel of another, after having been notified by the owner or the owner's agent not to do so, unless entering or crossing under a good faith claim of right or ownership.

    (b) Prohibited - Remaining on property.- A person may not remain on private property including the boat or other marine vessel of another, after having been notified by the owner or the owner's agent not to do so.

    (c) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to:

    (1) for a first violation, imprisonment not exceeding 90 days or a fine not exceeding $500 or both;

    (2) for a second violation occurring within 2 years after the first violation, imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both; and

    (3) for each subsequent violation occurring within 2 years after the preceding violation, imprisonment not exceeding 1 year or a fine not exceeding $2,500 or both.

    (d) Construction of section.- This section prohibits only wanton entry on private property.

    (e) Applicability to housing projects.- This section also applies to property that is used as a housing project and operated by a housing authority or State public body, as those terms are defined in Division II of the Housing and Community Development Article, if an authorized agent of the housing authority or State public body gives the required notice specified in subsection (a) or (b) of this section.




    [An. Code 1957, art. 27, § 577(a)(2), (b); 2002, ch. 26, § 2; 2006, ch. 64; 2010, chs. 334, 335.]
    Ok! Good to know. Thanks.
     

    BurkeM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2014
    889
    Baltimore
    I'm no lawyer, and I trained and learned to carry in the freedom of Arizona, and I've only spent 15 minutes searching, but my current belief is carry at BWI IS legal with a valid MD W&C or LEOSA status as long as you remain on the "open" side of the terminal. DO NOT get into the security checkpoint lines. The video and all verbiage on the MDTA link above appears to me to be focused entirely on carry or possession through and on the secured side of TSA's security barricade.

    Open and concealed carry is 100% legal at Phoenix Sky Harbor airport for anyone and everyone legally allowed to carry in any other public setting. I see nothing that would keep the same from applying to BWI, DCA, IAD, or others. There's a clear line between the secured side and the public side of an airport.
    Arizona is the polar opposite of Maryland.

    The State of Maryland OWNS the entire airport, BWI. The Department of Transportation, Maryland Aviation Administration (MAA).
    COMAR applies to the entire property, all 3,160 acres of land. That includes the building and grounds OUTSIDE the Air Operations Area (AOA) aka Secure Identification Display Area (SIDA).

    In other states, the State itself may not "own" the building, and in other states, State law is NOT as restrictive as Blue Maryland.
    (You may not realize this, but "open carry" is PROHIBITED in Maryland without a Handgun Permit.)

    DCA and IAD are owned by the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) and the far more liberal Virginia laws apply to those facilities on the other side of the Potomac River.
     

    dannyp

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 30, 2018
    1,244
    Seriously, the day mine shows up in the mail, I am going to 7/11 for a chili-cheese dog and finally feel safe eating it. No-one will know I am carrying, because it will be concealed. But I will. ;-) Then I will probably go home and put it away cause God knows when I am actually going to feel comfortable wearing it. I am just glad I will finally be allowed to take it to somewhere other than the range or a gunsmith without being a criminal.
    i'm already carrying around the house to get used to it , when i get my permit i'll be carrying 24/7 .
     

    Sunrise

    Member
    Aug 18, 2020
    548
    Capital Region
    Thanks. I'll take a look at this.
    That would be a place that the County Council considers a "place of public assembly" and an incident there would be heavily frowned upon by the current State's Attorney, John McCarthy (D). Not expressly prohibited, unless you carr a "ghost gun" or unserialized handgun (see Bill 4-21 below)

    Bill 21-22 has not been enacted yet, but is a very strong indicator of how you might be treated.​


    MoCo 4-21: (from MSI) On June 16, 2021, we filed an emergency motion for partial summary judgment on three of our counts against Montgomery County's enactment of Bill 4-21. The motion seeks to enjoin the County from enforcing their new illegal laws which will go into effect on July 16th without action from the Court. Find the motion HERE and the memorandum in support HERE. As we have stated previously, we will not sit idle while politicians make criminals of ordinary and law-abiding residents. You can learn more and find updates about this case at tinyurl.com/msivmoco.

    ------------------------


    So to make sure I understand:

    Any actual incident involving Self Defense there would be "frowned upon" by the State Attorney as you said and they might want to make an example of me, but conceal carrying at the Mall is not currently prohibited as any door signs don't have the force of State Law?

    If asked to leave by Mall Management because I'm printing or suspected of carrying for any reason, I should leave immediately to avoid a trespassing charge?

    If Bill 21-22 goes through, it sounds like doing this will go from "not specifically prohibited" to "illegal and chargeable".
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    41,268
    Glen Burnie
    COMAR regulations are pretty clear- no firearms on State property (and the State owns the entre airport and surrounding parking lots, roads, pathways and so on) per:

    COMAR 04.05.01.03B. Except for official purposes and by authorized personnel, an individual on the property may not carry open or concealed firearms, explosives, incendiary devices, or dangerous or deadly weapons.

    You might not be prosecuted, but you will be directed to leave the property if discovered to be carrying. TSA also has jurisdiction over the entire terminal, and they are also looking for firearms, ammunition and explosives. It would not be pleasant if a K-9 alerted on you for explosive residue.

    In the traffic loop, you're unlikely to be noticed if staying in your vehicle.

    TSA Fines

    Under federal law, the TSA has the authority to assess civil penalties of up to $13,000 for weapons violations. Typically, a first offense for carrying a handgun into a checkpoint is $3,900.

    In 2019, the TSA confiscated 4,432 guns at security checkpoints in US airports nationwide. 87% percent of those guns were loaded. With the total number of guns consociated up 7% since 2017, more and more people each year are forgetting their firearms in their carry-on baggage.

    According to former TSA federal security director at Midway Airport, Kevin McCarthy, Most people just forget . . [t]he two most common excuses are, ‘I didn’t know it was there’ and ‘I just forgot.’ The ones we’ve encountered don’t have any ill intent.
    There are no pistol explosive sniffing dogs there or anywhere.
     

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