Gewehr 98 Question

[Hickory76]

Hey all, I have a Gewehr 98 with roller coaster ramp rear sight that I believe (unconfirmed) was manufactured in Germany, assembled in Czech post-WWI (BRNO marking), and then exported to Turkey (crescent moon marking). I forget where I purchased it from...one of the big sellers from Shotgun News circas 2000's. Anyone else have one of these or know anything more about them? I've seen similar rifles with leaf rear sight, but not the roller coaster style which was typical of German G98's in WWI...

 

[John from MD]

Hey all, I have a Gewehr 98 with roller coaster ramp rear sight that I believe (unconfirmed) was manufactured in Germany, assembled in Czech post-WWI (BRNO marking), and then exported to Turkey (crescent moon marking). I forget where I purchased it from...one of the big sellers from Shotgun News circas 2000's. Anyone else have one of these or know anything more about them? I've seen similar rifles with leaf rear sight, but not the roller coaster style which was typical of German G98's in WWI...

Here's a good read on that rifle.

Gewehr 98 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hector J Medina G]

Not much to add.

The "Lange Vizier" G98's that were used in WWI were, for the most part, reworked by German arsenals to the simpler version, or sold to Turkey, who removed the sights and re-stamped the rifles.
As a shooter, I would say that there was little usefulness in a sight that was made for the blunt nosed 8 mm's and then the ammo changed, not only in actual caliber, but also in shape. So some of them MAY be over-stamped with corrected numbers for the ranges.

We need to remember that, for the Colonial period, it was believed that a well regulated line of infantry could hold back a charge of "savages" when shooting "Volley Fire" style. The idea was not too dis-similar from the English Longbowmen lobbing arrows into the charging lines of French heavy cavalry during the 100 years wars.

I am sure this would have had reasonably good effect in open spaces, like Africa, or the Middle East, but apart from those specific circumstances, the use was limited, the sight expensive and complicated; and difficult to train the infantry for long range work without actual firing and feedback. All things that were anathema to the top brass of those days.

Here are some interesting links:

https://www.hearmyselftalkhistory.com/featured-firearm/gewehr-98

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/gew-98-german-mauser-roller-coaster-rear-sight

If you handload, it should be possible to "tailor" ammo to run the same trajectory, and therefore render useful those markings, otherwise, test and see where it is shooting and then make a "table" of which setting to use for which distance.

Best of luck and HTH





HM

 

[Hickory76]

Not much to add.

The "Lange Vizier" G98's that were used in WWI were, for the most part, reworked by German arsenals to the simpler version, or sold to Turkey, who removed the sights and re-stamped the rifles.
As a shooter, I would say that there was little usefulness in a sight that was made for the blunt nosed 8 mm's and then the ammo changed, not only in actual caliber, but also in shape. So some of them MAY be over-stamped with corrected numbers for the ranges.

We need to remember that, for the Colonial period, it was believed that a well regulated line of infantry could hold back a charge of "savages" when shooting "Volley Fire" style. The idea was not too dis-similar from the English Longbowmen lobbing arrows into the charging lines of French heavy cavalry during the 100 years wars.

I am sure this would have had reasonably good effect in open spaces, like Africa, or the Middle East, but apart from those specific circumstances, the use was limited, the sight expensive and complicated; and difficult to train the infantry for long range work without actual firing and feedback. All things that were anathema to the top brass of those days.

Here are some interesting links:

https://www.hearmyselftalkhistory.com/featured-firearm/gewehr-98

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/gew-98-german-mauser-roller-coaster-rear-sight

If you handload, it should be possible to "tailor" ammo to run the same trajectory, and therefore render useful those markings, otherwise, test and see where it is shooting and then make a "table" of which setting to use for which distance.

Best of luck and HTH





HM

Thanks, that's really interesting about the ammo change rendering the old volley style sight irrelevant. Does that mean that those Turkish contract G98's with the simple leaf sight likely started out as the old roller coaster design and were arsenal re-works? Why the BRNO markings - were German rifles used in WWI re-worked by Czech arsenals post war? As far as I know, are there any rifles of complete Czech origin that have teh roller coaster sight?

 

[Hector J Medina G]

I am really no expert in the Gew98, and the post WW 1 period is a peculiar period because of the quick German government changes.

I found these two links that will throw some light:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_98

vz. 24 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As you can read there, the Czechs bought a huge lot of the original Gw98/1911 from the Dutch after WW1, and then developed their OWN version.

“There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

 

[emerald]

If you haven't, take a trip over here. Lots of knowledgeable people:

K98k Forum

This forum is dedicated to the study of Military Mauser rifles from WW1 through WW2. www.k98kforum.com

www.k98kforum.com

May or may not be any info over here too:

http://www.gewehr98.com/

 

[mawkie]

The newly formed Czechoslovakia received war reparations from Austria and Germany post WW1. Thus was born the arsenal at BRNO. The Czechs received M95s and GEW98s as well as components for building GEW98s. The French also donated M16 Berthier rifles. Before long the 98/22 was developed which used a tangent sight in place of the Lange "rollercoaster". Then the shorter, handier VZ24 series was adopted as the official Czech rifle.

 

[MilsurpDan]

Sounds like one of the early Czech Vz.98/22 rifles.

If I remember correctly, the first 10,000 to 20,000 or so had the Lange Vizier rear sight. After that the Czechs either ran out of German parts or just switched to the tangent sight.

I believe the Czechs sold virtually all of the 98/22’s to Turkey.